Episode 77: Collaborate, Innovate, Advocate with Beth Sundstrom, PhD

Beth Sundstrom, PhD, MPH, is a professor of health communication at the College of Charleston, where she is the Director of the Office of Undergraduate Research and Creative Activities (URCA) and the Founding Director of the Women’s Health Research Team (WHRT). She is a Fulbright Research Grant recipient and leading expert on health communication and reproductive health. Beth conducts applied research that informs the development of community-based public health interventions and nationally recognized communication campaigns. She is the author or co-author of three books and more than 80 scholarly articles on women’s health and health communication. Our conversation focuses on Beth’s innovative approach to research, writing, and health communication initiatives.

For our Creativity Pro-Tip, we encourage you to just write, just create, just get your ideas down into some tangible form, and don’t be afraid to fail, because what we often label as “failure,” is actually an amazing learning experience that is vital to the creative process.

Credits: The Syncreate podcast is created and hosted by Melinda Rothouse, and produced at Record ATX studios with in collaboration Michael Osborne and 14th Street Studios in Austin, Texas. Syncreate logo design by Dreux Carpenter.

If you enjoy this episode and want to learn more about the creative process, you might also like our conversations in Episode 12: Creativity, Inclusivity, and Community Theater with Sharanya Rao and Episode 62: The Neuroscience of Creativity with Dr. Indre Viskontas.

At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea for a project or a new venture, and you’re not sure how to get it off the ground, find us at syncreate.org. Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your creative goals. We also offer resources, creative process tools, and coaching, including a monthly creativity coaching group, to help you bring your work to the world. Find and connect with us on social media and YouTube under Syncreate. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review! 

Episode-specific hyperlinks: 

Beth’s Faculty Page at the College of Charleston

Beth’s Book: Catching Fire

Beth’s Book Birth Control: What Everyone Needs To Know 

Bedsider Website

St. Jude HPV Cancer Prevention Network

Show / permanent hyperlinks: 

The Syncreate Podcast

Syncreate Website

Syncreate Instagram

Syncreate Facebook

Syncreate LinkedIn

Syncreate YouTube

Melinda Rothouse Website

Transcript

Melinda: Creativity and community are absolutely vital in challenging times. Welcome to Syncreate, a show where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology and spirituality. We believe everyone has the capacity to create. Our goal is to demystify the process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative. We talk with visionaries and changemakers and everyday creatives working in a wide range of fields and media - from the arts to science, technology and business.

We aim to illuminate the creative process - from imagination to innovation, and everything in between. I'm Melinda Rothouse, and I help individuals and organizations bring their dreams and visions to life. At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea for a project or a new business venture and you're not quite sure how to get it off the ground, find us at syncreate.org. 

Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your goals. We also offer resources, creative process tools and coaching, including a monthly creativity coaching group to help you bring your work to the world. 

So my guest today is Beth Sundstrom. She holds a PhD in Health Communication and Public Relations from the University of Maryland at College Park, as well as a Masters in Health Communication and Women's Health from Brown University, and a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science from Tulane University. 

She's a professor of health communication at the College of Charleston in South Carolina. She's also a Fulbright scholar and research grant recipient, and she's a leading expert on health communication and reproductive health. She conducts applied research that informs the development of community based public health interventions and nationally recognized communication campaigns. She's the author or co-author of three books and more than 80 scholarly articles on women's health and health communication. 

So welcome, Beth. It's so wonderful to have you on the podcast. 

Beth: Thank you so much for having me. It's wonderful to be here. 

Melinda: Yeah. So I want to kind of let folks know a little bit about how we know each other. And I was just trying to figure out like, how long actually have we known each other? I think it's about 20 years now. 

Beth: It is 20 years. We have our 20th college reunion this fall. 

Melinda: There you go. Wow, that is amazing. So, we met in New Orleans at Tulane University, where I was adjunct faculty in the English department and I also taught religious studies. And you took a couple of classes with me there as an undergraduate, and then went on to continue your studies and accomplish a number of amazing things. 

And so, I'm so excited to have you on the show today for so many reasons. I think, you know, the topic of women's health and health communication is so relevant and important in this moment in history, in our country, with all the controversies that are going on currently around these issues. And it's personal to me as well because like so many women, I have been on my own journey with reproductive health. 

I suffered for many years from a condition called adenomyosis, as well as fibroids. It was extremely painful and although I hesitated for a long, long time, I ended up getting a hysterectomy - about a year and a half ago now, which actually, has been quite a relief - but there was a lot of fear and hesitation around, you know, making that move. 

And then, I have been doing hormone replacement therapy since that time. And I feel great, actually, at this point. But it's been a journey. And we actually talked about this in a previous episode of the podcast - Episode 19 - with a group of my own women healers who have been of great support to me and my journey. 

But I know so many women who struggle with all kinds of reproductive health issues, and as they're approaching, in midlife, kind of perimenopause/menopause, contemplating hormone replacement therapy - and it's really, really hard to find good information. And depending what doctors you go to, you might get very different opinions and options of how best to proceed. 

So, I'm just excited for this conversation, maybe helping women find some really good, trustworthy resources. So, I know you've written several books and many, many articles on this topic, and I guess I'm curious for just your average woman who is dealing with - this goes on throughout the life cycle, right? From teenage years, all the way through end of life - how can women become better informed on these issues? 

Beth: Yeah, that's such a great question. And, you know, I talk to women about this all the time. So, my job as a qualitative researcher is to talk with women. But you would be shocked. I don't know if it's the way that I look or if I say something. But really, I mean, whether I'm at a bus stop, I'm on a train, I am waiting and there's a security guard. It just it never fails to amaze me that women want to have these conversations and they need to have these conversations. 

And so, I'm so happy to be here. And it's been such a full circle journey, I think, from when we first met. And I'm so grateful to have kept this relationship and to continue to be doing impactful work together. So, I'm so happy to be here and to hopefully, share some insights for women on how they can find better information because it's difficult. 

My overarching message is always that women don't need to suffer. But the media, the misinformation, and myths about women's health do not make it easy for women to get the information that they need and I know my work really focuses on conducting interdisciplinary applied research to inform the development and evaluation of health communication campaigns and community based - sometimes technology mediated - public health interventions. And so that's how I'm trying to get the word out to women.  

Another way is I have a women's health research team. And so, we have been together since 2013, and our mission is really to conduct innovative interdisciplinary research in collaboration with community partners, and then to use that information to advocate and to improve public health policy and practice, to improve health outcomes. 

And so, our mission really is to collaborate, innovate and advocate. And I think your work in Syncreate has been so helpful to me personally in my creative process, but also for the team as well. 

Melinda: Oh, wow. That's so wonderful to hear. So what issues are top of mind for you? You know, obviously we have a new political administration in this country. There's a lot of things coming up around vaccine hesitancy and of course, all the kind of women's health issues that we’ve already mentioned. So kind of like, what is top of mind for you and your research team at this moment in time? 

Beth: Yeah. So, I am really focused right now on addressing misinformation and building resilience against false information, and disinformation in the US and globally. And so, one of the ways that I have done that is doing aFulbright in Ireland. And so, during this process - I think you were there around the same time - so, I was there in 2018, and it was just an amazing moment in Ireland. And I like to quote (and hopefully I'll get this quote somewhat right), but I like to quote Maeve Higgins, who is an Irish writer. 

And around this time in 2018, there was a lot of progress happening. And she said, “There's this feeling I get in Ireland, particularly among women, and I wish you could feel it too, because it’s extraordinary. It's something like electricity, but really a more ancient source of power, like fire. And the thing about fire, of course, is that it's catching.” 

And so, that sort of formed the basis of my Fulbright and our book that came out with my co-writer, historian Cara Delay, called Catching Fire. And so, we were really interested in the reproductive justice movement and women's health activism. And there's this wonderful story about HPV vaccination. So, as we sort of face the misinformation and disinformation - I mean, so timely this week - you know, what does that mean? And how can we fight against that? 

In 2010, Ireland initiated a school-based HPV vaccination program, and their national vaccination rates rose to almost 87%. And why should we care about HPV vaccination in particular? Well, we know that it's safe, it's effective, it's long lasting. And it really prevents six HPV cancers in both men and women. So not only cervical cancer but six different cancers and the head, neck and throat cancers actually surpassed cervical cancers as the most prevalent HPV cancer. And this is 2 to 3 times more common in men. So, the HPV vaccination is so important, and we really can make a difference. Australia is set to eliminate cervical cancer as a public health problem in ten years. 

Melinda: Wow. 

Beth: Ten years from now, they're going to eliminate cervical cancer as a public health problem. And it's because they started right away when the HPV vaccination was invented. One of the researchers (primary researchers) was from Australia and so, they have had a school-based program from the very beginning, and now they're going to eradicate it. It's just incredible. 

Melinda: That is amazing. 

Beth: It's amazing. Yeah. And Ireland was right there. So, they had this amazing success story until 2015, and an international misinformation campaign appeared in Ireland. And it was designed to undermine trust in vaccination. It targeted parents, it gained widespread coverage, and vaccination rates dropped to 40%. And so, this, you know, is sort of a moment that we see in the United States as well. 

You know, we're sort of in the midst of this misinformation campaign. And so, what they did in Ireland was they created the HPV Vaccination Alliance, and they brought together organizations and health departments and public health leaders. And this coalition really countered HPV vaccine hesitancy through a communication campaign that focused on truth telling and storytelling. And today, HPV vaccination rates in Ireland are back up to 80%. 

Melinda: Wow. That's incredible. So, this brings up a lot of questions, I think. So important because, I mean, this story that you're telling has to do specifically with the HPV vaccine. But we see this playing out again and again with all different types of vaccines. And of course, we know there is good science around it. And we know also that there is a lot of hesitation and mistrust and suspicion. 

And, you know, what is that based in? And how do you and your team go about addressing that? I mean, certainly, it comes from somewhere and how best to have that conversation? 

Beth: Yeah. That's such a good question. And I think it goes back to our mission of collaboration. So, that's what the coalition building is saying is - that we need everyone at the table. And when I was doing my Fulbright, I think one of the main things that I learned about addressing this anti-science - this anti-vaccine moment that we're in today - is about restoring confidence in vaccination. And that starts with compassion. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Beth: And so, I think, you know, when you're thinking about how do I have these conversations? Focusing on compassion and shared values has really been integral to my own work. Especially here in the United States as well. As we've worked to really build resilience against that misleading and false information, through collaboration. And then, that collaboration often leads to innovation through interdisciplinary research. So, just to give an example, in South Carolina and Tennessee, for example, we focused on what all parents have in common. 

We want to protect our children. And so, we launched a culture-centered statewide social media campaign in both states, and we really fostered message co-creation to address misinformation online. So, we really elevated parents. And we listened to our target audience. And so, we were better able to understand their drivers of trust in health information. And sort of by leveraging this peer-to-peer dialog, we were able to create technology-based interventions to train students and parents as vaccine champions. 

Melinda: So, what are some of those core concerns? Why is it that - aside from just misinformation alone, or maybe that's the majority of it - but I'm curious about the psychology of this and why people are so - certain people are so concerned - right? About potential ill effects of vaccines, for example? 

Beth: Yeah. So, I mean, the sort of number one is safety and side effects. And one of the things that really emerges is that folks think the HPV vaccination is new. And so that - this idea of a new vaccine - makes people hesitant. And so, when I am teaching to my students who don't remember a life before smartphones, I ask them, which is older, the HPV vaccine or the smartphone? 

And they said - this is probably much better because they can't remember life before it - but the HPV vaccine is older than your smartphone. So, if we think about our life and how we couldn't survive without our smartphones, the HPV vaccine is older than that. So, this has been around now since 2006. 

So, this is not a new vaccine, but this perception. So, the psychology of thinking of a new vaccine as not being tested enough. But we know that it's been tested, and we've given millions of doses all over the world. And not only is it safe, but it's effective. And so, we're seeing, again, as I mentioned, that Australia is about to eradicate cervical cancer, as a public health problem. 

But we're also seeing precursors. So, we're seeing fewer indicators of the progression of cervical cancer. So, we're seeing fewer abnormal pap tests. We're seeing fewer indicators that are sort of the intermediate areas that we need to see before we actually get to that point of eradicating cervical cancer. And it's possible in this country, too. 

We're a little bit behind, but we can still do it. So, if we focus on vaccination, testing, screening and treatment, we can do it here too. 

Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And I want to really kind of, look at this wider question of women's health and access to accurate information for women across the lifespan because, as I mentioned earlier, I know so many women. I'm sure you do, too. Who are dealing with various women's and reproductive related health concerns. And like you said, women don't need to suffer, but so many women are suffering and having a really difficult time accessing information. So, I'm curious, what advice would you give to a woman at various stages of their life on how to find the most accurate and useful information? 

Beth: Yeah. That's a great question. And I, you know, with my students, I am often recommending trusted sources. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Beth: So, you know, Bedsider is a great website, and they offer a comparison, and they talk a lot about hormonal contraception. But I think the gap - and I think what my work hopes to fill - is that a lot of websites, a lot of information is based on maybe one specific issue. And so, what I see in my work is that it's all connected.

Melinda: Yes. 

Beth: And so, I'm really interested in how we can sort of disrupt the nature culture dualism - that false binary. And instead provide insight that empowers people who menstruate, people who feed their children, people who experience menopause and recognize that the questions that we have - you know, for one example, hormones - the fear that we may have around hormones, the idea that myths and disinformation online portrays hormones as unnatural, even though that's not grounded in science, even though that is not based in fact. 

But where did these ideas come from? And so, this idea of what is natural or what is unnatural is really tied up in culture. And so, one of my books - Birth Control: What Everyone Needs To Know - that book is really focused on hormones and addressing the fear/contraceptive scare, and how we can make better decisions by having the right information. 

And so, I think that there is a gap, and that's something that I'm working on - is trying to fill that gap so that women can get information across the lifespan and understand how maybe fears about hormones and birth control impact their ability to get treatment for perimenopause and menopause. 

Melinda: Wow. So, is there a new website resource in the future? I think there's a real opportunity there. 

Beth: I hope so. And Cara Delay and I are working on a new project. And, you know, the focus is really that we want to look at myths and media and misinformation - from menstruation to menopause - and help women to understand, it's not just a period. It's not just endometriosis. It's not just pregnancy or childbirth or breastfeeding or menopause. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Beth:  That these issues - that they deserve better information that they can understand to make the best decision for themselves, really free from fear and judgment. Because of course, all of these issues are tied up in understandings about gender and women and motherhood. And so, we want to bring information to women that they can understand, and hopefully also influence health care providers and journalists, who report on these issues and may not have the background to really provide the context that would be helpful for women to make the most informed decision for themselves. 

Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking back - and this is also kind of pre-Internet - I'm not even sure if it's still in print, but maybe, you know that classic book Our Bodies, Ourselves, right? Which was like, kind of the go-to guide for women back in the day on all of these kinds of matters. What is the [21st] century equivalent of that? Right? 

Beth: Yeah. Exactly. Right. We need an update. 

Melinda: We do. We really do. Yeah. So, in terms of kind of - I know one of your big focuses is innovative communications strategies, and you've mentioned a couple so far - but is there any kind of like, campaigns or other efforts that you've got going on at the moment to that end? 

Beth: Yeah. Thanks for asking. 

Melinda: Yeah.

Beth: So, one initiative that we just finished - and so, we have one publication out but more coming - we partnered - so the Women's Health Research Team partnered with physicians at the Medical University of South Carolina and the Department of Health as well. And we partnered with the Charleston County Public Library System to write, and we were fortunate to receive a grant from the South Carolina Center for Rural and Primary Health Care. And this grant was really to bring women's preventive care to rural libraries. 

So, our idea was - we had done some formative audience research in the rural low country of South Carolina, and we found that women wanted to receive health care at a neutral community location that was confidential, and it was easily accessible, and it was right in their community. And so, they mentioned the library. That wasn't something we had thought of, but women told us that's where they wanted to get health care. 

So, we put this group together - this dream team together - and we created the Wise Women in the Southeast Telehealth Network. And we just have finished this grant. But one of the really cool pieces - it was a big initiative - but one of the pieces was this campaign that we developed called Do you want a period? And so, from writing the Birth Control: What Everyone Needs To Know book - one of the questions over a decade of talking with women - one of the questions was how is this contraception going to impact my period? 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Beth: And the answer to that question was oftentimes a determining factor in whether women had a successful experience with birth control - whether they liked it, whether they kept using it or they didn't like it, didn't continue using it. And it wasn't a question that was really covered. It wasn't something that people were talking about. And so, we created this campaign, really to educate women and help them to make a better choice because, in terms of contraception, we know that it's safe. We know that it's effective. We also know that it has a lot of health benefits in addition to preventing unintended pregnancy.

So, it can treat or prevent anemia. It can treat heavy menstrual bleeding and painful periods. It can be helpful with acne and asthma and migraines, and pelvic inflammatory disease, and ovarian cysts and PCOS, and uterine fibroids and endometriosis, and so much more. But one of the things that women really weren't aware of is that contraception has been shown to prevent the risk of colon cancer, ovarian cancer and endometrial cancer. 

And so, we were able to talk with women about the benefits of birth control, in this context of Do you want a period? And so, you know, one of the things that women didn't realize is that the traditional birth control pill, for example, is based on twenty one days of active pills and seven days of placebo pills. 

Melinda: Right. 

Beth: And so, they can have a withdrawal bleeding. But that's not a real period. That’s not a menstrual cycle. And there's actually no need for it. So, the creators of the pill did this - you know, if you're giving them the benefit of the doubt to make it more acceptable to women, you know, to mimic that normal natural cycle. But in fact, there has never been a health or medical reason to have that withdrawal bleeding. And actually, in 2019, in the United Kingdom, their group that really makes recommendations - their Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Health Care - said that all women should be told that the withdrawal bleed has no benefits and that they can choose to have a different tailored regimen where they don't need to bleed. 

And so, you know, women say, “Well, I like to get that withdrawal bleed because it tells me that I'm not pregnant.” And, you know, it can be an indicator that you're not pregnant, but I also ask my students - that's also where the show I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant. (Laughter) 

Melinda: Right. Right. Exactly. 

Beth: So, it's not - the withdrawal bleed does not prove that you're not pregnant. So, you know - and there's a lot of misinformation online right now - a lot of women have concerns about, “Shouldn't I be menstruating? Shouldn't I be getting a period?” And from an evolutionary or an anthropological perspective, Doctor Beverly Strassman - she was one of the first anthropologists to find this - she said that before the demographic transition. So, in a pre-industrial society, women only menstruate at about 100 times in their life. And today, the average American woman might menstruate 350 to 400 times. 

Melinda: And why is that? Is it because of just improved health care? Longer lifespans? What all goes into that? 

Beth: So again, I'm not an anthropologist, but the idea is that women in these hunter gatherer societies - which, you know, we've been in for 95% of our evolution, they - but because of their diet, because of their nutrition - they wouldn’t start menstruating until much later. I've seen estimates from 17 to 20. 

Melinda: Wow. 

Beth: And then they would be - they would have a cycle of pregnancies followed by lactational amenorrhea from extended breastfeeding. And again, given their specific diet and exercise - that lactational amenorrhea was very effective. I wouldn't recommend it today as foolproof birth control. (Laughter) 

Melinda: Right. 

Beth: I just want to make sure. 

Melinda: Right. 

Beth: It's not - you know, we shouldn't rely on that in the pre-industrial world. It really limited their menstrual cycles. And so, also, you know, they would have lots of cycles of pregnancy and then lactational amenorrhea, as well as a shortened period because they weren't starting their period for many more years. I mean, I think the average in the US now is, you know, just under 12. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Beth: So, that's a huge gap as well. 

Melinda: Wow. That's fascinating. I didn't know that. So, so much information out there that we need more access to. And so, that campaign that you mentioned in the libraries with the telehealth - that sounds amazing. And I just want to note you are in Charleston, South Carolina - a state in the South that is quite conservative generally. And yet, you were able to effectively build this campaign. I'm curious, if there are any plans or efforts to expand that across the country? 

Beth: Yes. So, we tested it and evaluated it - both with women in these rural libraries and that was one of the questions that we had - would women, would librarians want to talk with women about this? And so, we actually had community health workers that we were able to hire to be at the library. And, you know, we found that, yes - this was a conversation that really people were really wanting to have. So, there was quite a need there. And we really feel like there is a potential here to take this, to really change the dialog about menstruation and to empower women to better understand their reproductive health and their contraceptive choices. 

And so, we then tested it among college students, and they also thought that this has potential. Especially addressing the disinformation, dispelling safety concerns. And that was what they really wanted to know. And so, then we worked with a computer science professor, Doctor Sarah Showman, and her students actually created a game so that we could make this a gaming experience, and really even spread it further. So, there's a lot in the works, that we would love to spread this further. 

And, of course, we're always interested in partnerships. So, if anyone is interested in working together, we would love to share with them. But I think, you know, again, it comes back to what I said at the beginning where I think we are just in this difficult moment - it's anti-science, antivaccine, anti-contraception. And I think it's in large part based on a misunderstanding of what is natural or what is unnatural. But we have found that you can shift social norms by really focusing on compassion and really emphasizing our shared values. 

And I think storytelling and reframing the narrative, is the most effective way to do that. And we've done that through technology. By finding the right messengers and, ultimately, just easier - sort of that communication and best practice ecosystem of the getting the right person, the right message, at the right time. 

Melinda: Yeah. And I love that. I just want to reflect back to, you know, how truly creative and innovative this work that you're doing is. I feel like you're really on the leading edge of this and not by creating further division, but actually by reaching out and connecting with people and addressing their concerns. Things feel so divisive right now, and I think the answer is not for everybody to just go into their separate camps and dig in their heels. But like, we've got to have these conversations. We've got to communicate. We've got to figure out, what are the concerns and how can we best address them? 

So, I love that you mentioned that you and your team are kind of using the Syncreate process in your work. And I'm curious, kind of as a way of bringing things toward a close, how do - I see your work as being incredibly creative and innovative - but how do you experience that? 

Beth: Yeah. I think, you know, for me, it's that process of collaborate, innovate, advocate. And to me, I sort of see it as a circle. So again, I feel like I pull a lot from your teaching and your work. But because, in a typical research project, you would start with that collaboration, you would start with - we have a team that's interdisciplinary, we have researchers from disciplines all across campus, whether that's communication or public health or history, English, biology. Just that you can learn so much by, moving outside of those silos that we're often in, and interdisciplinary research, but then also collaborating with community partners. 

So, working directly with folks that have the questions, that are impacted by the research. And so, I think one of the important pieces of that is making sure that we're bringing in health care providers and we're bringing in community organizations and nonprofit organizations, to make sure that we're coming up with ideas that are truly innovative. 

And so, I think that collaboration leads to innovation. And listening to the target audience, I find, is often the most important piece of that creativity - is really, you know, leaning on them and then advocating. And so, I like to tell this story because the Wise Telehealth Network - if we hadn't had that advocacy piece - would never have come to be, because the South Carolina Legislature wanted to exclude contraception from telehealth in the first Telehealth Bill in the state in 2016. 

And by that time, we already had done our formative audience research and gone and talked with women and so we were able to bring their words to the legislators and say, “We just provided this issue education…” and said, “This is what your constituents said.” It's really important that they can access contraception through telehealth. And so, they removed that exception. And without that advocacy, we wouldn't have been able to do the Wise Telehealth Network because it was all about providing women's preventive care through telehealth, including contraception. 

Melinda: Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Well, congratulations on all of your efforts. And I'm excited to see where you continue to go with all of this. We usually like to end each episode with some kind of - what I call a Creativity Pro Tip - which is something really tangible that people can kind of, you know, go out and explore on their own. And so, I'm curious, either related to this issue of women's health more broadly or about the creative process in research and coalition building and community building - what would be your Pro Tip? 

Beth: That is such a good question. I was wondering if you were going to ask me because I listen to your podcast. (Laughter) 

Melinda: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Beth: Yeah. I mean, I think really - actually my Pro Tip - I'll actually start in graduate school - one of my friends in graduate school actually made this poster for me. It's says, “Just write”. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Beth: Because apparently that was my advice. (Laughter) 

Beth: Of all of my friends - we were all in graduate school together - and it's such a hard time - and so, my advice was “Just write”. You know, you have to just get something on the paper. And, of course, you were my writing professor in college -(Laughter) 

Beth: - so I had learned so much from you already by then. But that was my mantra was - not to let perfect be the enemy of the good. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Beth: Just write, get it down on paper. And so, I think, my Creativity Pro Tip is that, you know, don't be afraid to fail. Try and put it down on paper. And on the team, we really try to create a culture of failure. And so, I share with my students when my articles are rejected and how many times they're rejected. You know, that failure. Even though most of the time we only see the book, we see the finished article. We don't see how many times it got rejected. 

Melinda: Exactly. 

Beth: And so really, building a culture that embraces and celebrates failure, is something I do with the team. And I also do it with my kids. You know, I ask them, “What did you do today, and you failed?” And I ask them to do that because I want them to know that failure is not just okay - it's not just something that happens to everyone - but actually, it's a good thing. And to be comfortable with that failure, I think, to me, is one of the most crucial steps in the creative process. 

Melinda: Absolutely. And kind of just another way of saying that - like a reframe according to - kind of like growth mindset - Carol Dweck’s work - you know, it's that failure is actually opportunity and means you were willing to take a risk. And we know from creativity studies that you have to be willing to take risks in order to innovate. And any time we “fail”, there's a learning opportunity. We can learn from that and go, “Okay. How do I want to do things going forward?” 

So, I love that. Thank you so much. And I know you mentioned earlier in the episode some resources. But if people want to learn more about some of these issues of women's health, vaccines, so on… any other recommended resources that you might point people toward? 

Beth: Yeah. I mean, for HPV vaccination that we've talked a lot about, I would recommend St. Jude's HPV Cancer Prevention Program. And, you know, for contraception, I mentioned bedsider.org. And, I think, those are my top two for those two issues. 

Melinda: Okay. Perfect. And then if people want to find out more about you and your work and your team, what's the best way for them to find you and maybe connect? 

Beth: Sure. So, I am a professor at the College of Charleston in Charleston, South Carolina, and so, my faculty bio page has all of my information. And yes, anyone should definitely feel free to reach out, anytime. 

Melinda: Okay. Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Beth. It's been such a pleasure. And I look forward to some of our future collaborations, which maybe we'll get to talk about in another episode down the line. 

Beth: Me too. Thank you so much.

Melinda: Find and connect with us on YouTube and social media under Syncreate. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review. You're also welcome to reach out to us directly at info@syncreate.org. We'd love to hear your feedback on the show. 

We're recording today at Record ATX Studios in Austin, with Beth joining us from Charleston, South Carolina. The podcast is produced in collaboration with Mike Osborne at 14th Street Studios. Thanks so much for being with us, and see you next time.