The Syncreate Podcast: Empowering Creativity
Welcome to Syncreate, where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology, and spirituality. Our goal is to demystify the creative process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative.
Creativity. It’s a word we throw around all the time, but what does it really mean? On the Syncreate Podcast, we share stories of the creative journey. We talk to changemakers, visionaries and everyday creatives working in a wide array of fields and disciplines. Our goal is to explore creativity in all its facets, and to gain a better understanding of the creative process – from imagination to innovation and everything in between.
The Syncreate Podcast is hosted by Melinda Rothouse, PhD. She helps individuals and organizations bring their creative dreams and visions to life through coaching, consulting, workshops, retreats, and now, this podcast. She's written two books on creativity, including Syncreate: A Guide to Navigating the Creative Process for Individuals, Teams, and Communities (winner of a Silver Nautilus Award for Creativity and Innovation), with Charlotte Gullick. She's also a musician (singer-songwriter and bass player) and photographer based in Austin, Texas.
The Syncreate Podcast: Empowering Creativity
Episode 73: Theatre, Storytelling, and The Labor of Creativity with Marcus McQuirter, PhD
Marcus McQuirter, PhD, is the Chair of the Drama Department at Austin Community College, where he teaches Voice, Acting, and Introduction to Theater. A storyteller at heart, he’s also a director, novelist, and podcaster. Dr. McQuirter holds a BFA in Theatre from Howard University, an M.A. in Theatre from the University of North Texas, and a Ph.D. in Performance Studies from the University of Texas, Austin. Our conversation ranges from the craft of audio storytelling to the labor of creativity, and theatre as an inclusive community space.
For our Creativity Pro-Tip, we encourage you to sing and jam out in your car as a way of strengthening your vocal skills, overcoming inhibitions, and developing confidence. Go ahead, try it - it might be fun and liberating!
Credits: The Syncreate podcast is created and hosted by Melinda Rothouse, and produced at Record ATX studios with in collaboration Michael Osborne and 14th Street Studios in Austin, Texas. Syncreate logo design by Dreux Carpenter.
If you enjoy this episode and want to learn more about the creative process, you might also like our conversations in Episode 52: Texas Poet Laureate Amanda Johnston, Episode 64: Synesthesia, Consciousness, Creativity with Zoe Martell and Archie Frink, and Episode 71: Acting Out of Character with John Cane, PhD.
At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea for a project or a new venture, and you’re not sure how to get it off the ground, find us at syncreate.org. Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your creative goals. We also offer resources, creative process tools, and coaching to help you bring your work to the world. Find and connect with us on social media and YouTube under Syncreate. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review, or reach out to us at info@syncreate.org.
Episode-specific hyperlinks:
Marcus McQuirter, PhD Austin Community College Faculty Profile
Austin Community College Drama Department Website
Marcus’ Podcasts: Intermission: Conversations with Theater People about anything but Theater and The Burden of Legacy.
Show / permanent hyperlinks:
Melinda: Welcome to Syncreate, a show where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology, and spirituality. We believe everyone has the capacity to create. Our goal is to demystify the process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative. We talk with visionaries and change makers, and everyday creatives working in a wide range of fields and mediums, from the arts to science, business and technology.
We aim to illuminate the creative process, from imagination to innovation and everything in between. I'm Melinda Rothouse and I help individuals and organizations bring their dreams and visions to life. At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. So, if you have an idea for a creative project or a new business or entrepreneurial venture, reach out to us at syncreate.org.
Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your creative goals. And, we're excited to announce that the Syncreate book is now available in audiobook format as well at Audible or wherever you find your audiobooks. We also offer resources, creative process tools, and coaching to help you bring your work to the world, including a monthly coaching group starting up in January of 2025. So we'd love for you to join us for community and accountability in a creative group setting.
My guest today is Dr. Marcus McQuirter. He's the head of the Drama Department here at Austin Community College, in Austin. He holds a PhD in Performance Studies from the University of Texas at Austin, as well as a BFA in Theatre Arts from Howard University in Washington, D.C., and a Masters in Theatre from the University of North Texas.
He's also the host of two podcasts - one called Intermission, which is conversations with theater people about what they do in their own time when they're not doing theater, and The Burden of Legacy - a narrative fantasy podcast. He's also got a book in progress and is a multifaceted creative. Welcome -
Marcus: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Melinda: Marcus - great to have you here in the studio and in person. It's always fun to do these in person.
Marcus: I know, we’re - well, Covid’s still around, but -
Melinda: - yeah.
Marcus: It’s nice to be in the same room with people once again.
Melinda: Totally. I, you know, I talk to people from all over, but it's a treat when they're here in Austin.
Marcus: Definitely.
Melinda: So, I have so many questions for you. So you're also a podcaster?
Marcus: Yes. Yes.
Melinda: And, as well -
Marcus: - Baby, baby podcaster.
Melinda: A baby podcaster. Okay. As well as the head of the Drama program -
Marcus: Yes.
Melinda: - at Austin Community College. And, you know, when we were talking initially, getting ready for this, you mentioned that, you know, since you're at the college, you took a podcasting class -
Marcus: I did -
Melinda: - and that's how you started -
Marcus: Yeah -
Melinda: - your two podcasts. So, I'm kind of curious to hear more about how you got into podcasting.
Marcus: I think it starts with - I've always been interested in sound.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And sound design. Audio. Audio dramas. I think I chalk it up to one church -
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: When I was young.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And just the oral and the audio environment that you find in churches and then, for some strange reason, Twilight Zone.
Melinda: Oh, interesting. Yeah -
Marcus: They always struck me more as - it’s a television show, for those of you who don't -
Melinda: - remember.
Marcus: I'm dating myself. (Laughter)
Marcus: But they always struck me more like, akin to plays.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Which is, I mean, it's where I, you know, study and it’s where I work.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: In theater. But as an art form, it's much more oral and aural than visual
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I think that's why I never got into film.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I just like sound. So, I saw that our RTF department has a, I guess it's not new anymore, a - see if I can get this right. Shout out - shout out to ACC RTF. Creative Podcasting Certificate. I may have a full degree.
Melinda: Nice.
Marcus: But there was this 1309 Podcasting One. Christof Burfict, a fantastic teacher.
Melinda: Cool.
Marcus: And it was like, you know what? I have some time this summer. Let's do this. And it comes off the heels when we were in Covid, during the Covid lockdown.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So, you know, we're a Theater department. So we were like, “What are we going to do?”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: “We can't meet.” And we wound up doing partnering with creative writing. And we produced some audio dramas.
Melinda: Cool.
Marcus: Yeah. Just, you know, it's old school.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's like, oh, yeah, we've been doing this for a while. It’s a tried and true form. So some students from Creative Writing wrote some short plays, and then passed them over to us, and we got some actors and, like, you know, some way to keep performance going.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And it was - it was fun. You know, some of them were more successful than others. But it was - it was a really interesting learning curve. To get to know the audio and the tech of it, as well as the artistry of how do you direct actors and -
Melinda: - Yeah.
Marcus: - how do you think through storytelling when it's just sound?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: You get a stage direction like “She turns her head.” It doesn't read on audio. (Laughter)
Melinda: Like that. Right.
Marcus: But there are ways that you can get really creative with sound, we discovered, that helps to tell a story. So then fast forward to, I guess this was last summer. Gosh, was it that soon ago? Yeah, I took the class with Chris, and, you know, the assignments in the class are, you know, you do a solo and then you do the discussion, podcast, then you do some of the marketing for it, and then you do a creative fiction or narrative one. And I was like, let's go.
Melinda: Awesome.
Marcus: And the way he teaches it, he gives you just enough, just enough of the text so that you can get it done, but not enough that you get -
Melinda: - into trouble?
Marcus: Into trouble. Yeah.
Melinda: That’s why I like coming here. Because they do all the tech stuff.
Marcus: There’s a lot of buttons.
Melinda: I just show up. Yeah, exactly.
Marcus: And, yeah. And then it was just like, okay, let's try this.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And, I think, mostly it's just - it’s just fun to do.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's just really, I mean, you know this - you -
Melinda: - Yeah.
Marcus: You’re a podcaster. You're a much more mature, less baby podcaster than me.
Melinda: But I never took a class. I sort of had to figure it out on my own. But I have a producer who helped me out a bunch, Mike Osborne and, you know, we kind of always have this debate, and we've actually talked about it on the show because he's more of like an audio purist. And my idea was born during the pandemic as well, but I knew I wanted to have a video component to it. And so, we've had, you know, had some healthy differences of opinion around that. You know, just like the oral storytelling part versus the video and visual parts of it.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.
Melinda: So, yeah. So what was that like for you - sort of adapting from the theatrical stage to the audio only format?
Marcus: Sure. You know, it's like I said - the tech is there. I learned very early on that it is really important to get a good capture.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Because if you don't, you will spend the rest of your time trying to fix that audio.
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: And you'll never fix it. It will never be right.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: But then, once you get past that, if you can get the right environment for recording, then it's just like theatre, because then you just -
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I mean, I spent my lifetime working with actors.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So like, here’s a line. Okay, let's do a read of that line. And then, does that help tell the story? Can we go deeper? And figuring out what questions to ask. That's kind of - that’s kind of where my training already is.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So that - that transition was easy.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I think the difficult parts are, again, trying to figure out what's going to - I keep using this term ‘read’. But read is an oral term.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: What's going to read in an audio environment? And, rather than it being like an obstacle, in talking about creativity -
Melinda: Mhm-hmm.
Marcus: - It’s like, okay, this is a challenge. How can we, how can we convey this sunset? It's beauty and its tranquility - if we just have audio.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: We're not going to see the shifting colors of light.
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: But there are sound things you can do that can give - you discover either analogous or close or sometimes brand-new sensations and feelings of, oh, okay.
Melinda: That can kind of evoke that.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.
Melinda: I love that.
Marcus: It’s - yeah, it's like, get in touch with your inner synesthesia.
Melinda: Yes. I just did an episode on synesthesia, actually. Yeah.
Marcus: It’s fascinating,
Melinda: That’s a great exercise. Yeah. I love that. And the thing about it is, you know, we're always perceiving the world multi-sensorily anyway. Right? It’s just it's almost artificial to break it down into visual and sound, and, you know?
Marcus: Right. They overlap and they influence one another.
Melinda: So, yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: Who's that - isn’t there - it’s like some restaurant in New York where they turn the lights out?
Melinda: Oh, yeah. So you can just focus on that tasting -
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: - and smelling. Yeah.
Marcus: Just weird because I want to see it too.
Melinda: Yeah, I know -
Marcus: I wanna hear it too.
Melinda: - because it's often beautiful.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. That's true.
Melinda: Yeah. So, oh, there's so many places we can go. (Laughter)
Melinda: But one of the things that we were talking about in our initial conversation that I thought was very intriguing was this idea of the sweat equity of creativity and the labor of creativity, because, you know, one of the things we're trying to do on this show is dispel some of the myths around creativity, such as either you're struck with inspiration or you're not. Right? And we know as creatives that it's actually a lot of hard work. Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: So how does that show up for you? You do so many different things.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: I mean, how do you find time for it all? And what does that labor look like for you?
Marcus: A little bit of insomnia. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah, right.
Marcus: And, yeah. I mean, it's funny you asked me what I've been doing over break. I've been doing a lot of writing, and, man, my back is killing me, right? It’s killing me.
Melinda: Right. It’s no joke.
Marcus: And there's some times, you know, you've been at it for a couple of hours and you’re just like, can I just finish this one sentence?
Melinda: And then I get up, I swear.
Marcus: So. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know where that comes from. To be honest. My theory is, is part of it is, I was an athlete when I was younger. And so to produce something meant that you had to number one - prepare.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: You had to go to the gym. You had to run around the track, you had to do those three miles. I played soccer, I played football, I wrestled - wrestling is terrible. (Laughter)
Marcus: Oh, it's so hard. But I think it just kind of ingrains in you. Yeah - if you want to achieve something, you're going to have to work for it.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Period.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Just as a principle in life.
Melinda: Sure.
Marcus: And I think that was reinforced by my father and my mother, and watching my older brothers develop and succeed. So, like, okay, I guess we're going to have to work. No matter what it is we're doing.
Melinda: Sure.
Marcus: And then when I went to - I did my undergraduate at Howard, I think the second semester I was there, I started working in a machine shop as a scenic carpenter.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And everything else that needed to be done.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And so it was Paul Falcon. Shout out to Paul Falcon. The first thing I did in that shop, right? So I'm going to school to learn how to make art. First thing I did in that shop - he gave me a five-gallon bucket full of random screws and hardware and nails. He's like, sort this. (Laughter)
Marcus: And literally for a week and a half - maybe it’s longer than that - it was a long time ago. It was just like, okay, this is a one and a quarter drywall fine thread. This is a one and a half drywall course thread. I know my screws now.
Melinda: That's right.
Marcus: And then even from there, it was just - it was a matter of, okay, we're going to come in, we're going to lift these pieces of three-quarter inch plywood, we’re going to unload these two by fours, we’re going to shift and move this thing around, we’re going to climb up on a ladder. And then you sit back at the end of it and you see this beautiful, you know -
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: - musical or play that’s going on -
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: - and you're like, wow, we did that.
Melinda: We created that.
Marcus: We created that.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And so there was never ever a question of I can just sit back and theorize and exercise my mind in order to create something.
Melinda: Mm-hmm. There’s the physicality of it too.
Marcus: Absolutely. But it's theater or writing or I mean, dance is the greatest example.
Melinda: Sure.
Marcus: Or acting - acting is so physical. Even when I'm working with actors because one of the podcast is narrative, right? So we're doing voice over work.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: You can't just stand there and become those characters.
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: It's amazing to watch actors, how physical they are.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And nobody's ever going to see that.
Melinda: Right. But it's like you have to embody a character and the gestures and - yeah.
Marcus: Yeah. And it’s the idea that your voice comes from all throughout your body. So I teach a voice class as well. Voice For The Actor. And the first couple of weeks we’ve just been learning how to breathe.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Relaxation. Opening up all the tight little resonator pockets in your body. You know, top of your head, back of your spine, your hips. They're these little pockets throughout your body where your sound resonates.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And it seems like ‘woo woo woo’ kind of stuff. But I'm a hippie, so it's okay.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it.
Melinda: Plus, it's a real thing.
Marcus: It's a real thing, and it's good for you. I mean, learning how to breathe is good for you.
Melinda: Oh, yeah.
Marcus: But all of that is physical work in order to achieve whatever kind of characterizations you want. That kind of artistry when you’re on the mic - and it's got to be there.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I highly recommend unplugging all day long - I highly recommend – (Laughter)
Melinda: You're not the first person to bring that up on the show. Like, do you know where the off button is on your phone? (Laughter)
Marcus: Stage movement. We have a really good - amazing - stage movement teacher, but take it anywhere. So anybody who wants to be a performer of in any genre, whether it's voice acting or on stage or on screen, learning how to express through your body is - it’s fundamental.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's fundamental.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I always say I really love the kind of - the British educational system when it comes to performance education and teaching actors. Here, we usually, it’s - you take Acting One and Acting Two. And somewhere along the way you take a voice class and maybe a dance class or a movement class.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And a lot of places over there - I might be talking out my ass - (Laughter)
Marcus: This is the thing about this. I should try to research this. I think I did research this at one point, but a lot of places will go, no, you're going to spend one year studying voice.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And movement or body and dance.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Because you have to learn how to play your instrument.
Melinda: Mm-hmm.
Marcus: Going back to that question about physicality -
Melinda: For sure.
Marcus: - and labor. It’s physicality that allows you to get to creativity and inspiration slips in there at some points. But a lot of times especially, like in theatre, I mean, if you've got an eight week run of a show or a three week show -
Melinda: Oh, yeah.
Marcus: - You’re not going to be inspired every day.
Melinda: Nope.
Marcus: - but you have to perform. You have to show up. And you have to deliver. And a lot of that is - it’s technique - it’s technique, it’s technique, it’s technique. So I really like the idea of training your instrument. If you're going to play Handel or Bach or any of Duke Ellington’s stuff, you got to know how to play your scales.
Melinda: For sure.
Marcus: Your fingers have got to work the way they need to work.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And then you can forget about it and get to the art. The quote unquote art.
Melinda: But yeah, I mean it is - I trained as a classical singer and same thing. So much like learning how to breathe, like, learning how to use your full breath capacity. Like, literally building those intercostal muscles.
Marcus: Yes. Yes.
Melinda: You know, and it takes time -
Marcus: It does.
Melinda: - and a ton of practice. Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah, totally.
Marcus: I advise my voice students, like, okay, my goal is, is not to get you stage ready. Alright. Because that takes time.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: What we're doing now is, I’m going to teach you a regimen. So think about it like a marathon. You've been sitting on a couch -
Melinda: Right! (Laughter)
Marcus: If you get up and try to run a marathon -
Melinda: It’s not going to happen.
Marcus: - It’s not going to happen. You’ll probably die.
Melinda: Right! (Laughter)
Marcus: Or wish you had.
Melinda: Right!
Marcus: But here's kind of a process that you'll need to practice over the next couple of years in order to get yourself to stage worthy voice, which is, you know, 55 decibels easy, in a full space that you can sustain without losing your voice, etc., etc., etc..
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: But you can't just jump in there and expect - because you're not in shape. You're literally not in shape for it.
Melinda: Right. Yeah.
Marcus: And a lot of people don't think about acting, in particular. “Oh, I have to be in shape?” And I don't mean like muscles and you know, I mean, it's great if you got them, but I don't care. I'm talking about those muscles that we can't see.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: The ones that you're actually going to use.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: The intercostals that you’re talking about.
Melinda: Yes. Yeah.
Marcus: And get yourself in shape. But it's physical. It’s physical. It’s physical. It's sweat.
Melinda: For sure. So, in terms of teaching students theatre and drama and all of this, there's also, I mean - of course, there's the physical part, right? And then there's mental and emotional and psychological parts too, like, how do you train students in those ways?
Marcus: Ooh! It's tough. We've got a new initiative that we're formalizing now. It's - we’re calling it Green Theatre Initiative. But really, it's - a lot of it is about if we take the idea of sustainability, right?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: That we're not only trying to make sure - I mean, it's my favorite planet, right?
Melinda: Mine too. (Laughter)
Marcus: That it's sustainable, but also that the artists that are creating this work can pay the rent.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Get food.
Melinda: For sure.
Marcus: And have enough sense to be able to think about self-care and mental health and all those kind of things, so that you can continue to grow - continue to grow as an artist, continue to contribute to our society.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Because I think it's important. I think art is important.
Melinda: Of course.
Marcus: So, there are some formal things like that. You know, we - or at least I - in my classes and hopefully in our department, we're very sensitive to “Hey, take care of yourself.”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: “Let’s not burn out.”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Just think about it. When you're on holiday - and I'm the worst - I’m the worst - when you're on holiday. I'll check your email.
Melinda: Right. (Laughter)
Marcus: For students and faculty as well. And we've gotten better. I think part of it is we're all workaholics.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: We try to shield our students from that.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Say don't do as I - “Do as I say. Not as I do.”
Melinda: Yeah, right. Exactly.
Marcus: And ACC is getting much better about having, like, counseling services and those sorts of things available to students as resources, and we promote that. Promote that.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And then, you know -
Melinda: Whole person.
Marcus: Whole person, whole person, whole person. And building community, I think is -
Melinda: - so important.
Marcus: Really important, because you got to have people you can lean on.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And taking away the stigma of the - I love The Sun Also Rises, but Hemingway man. Come on, bro. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's not a good model for us -
Melinda: - right? The tortured artist.
Marcus: The tortured artist. It's like, there's enough pain and grief in the world as it is.
Melinda: We don't need to torture ourselves more.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: And even if you're doing work that is difficult and introspective and challenging, I think it's super important that you find joy in it.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Which is a twisted thing to say but, find joy in the production of it and the sharing of it. So that when we do touch on those traumatic elements, we can collectively address it.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: As opposed to on your own.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah - I love this idea of kind of, you know, the sustainability of creative practice.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Right? There's the labor of it and then the sustainability of it.
Marcus: Yep.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It’s hard. I mean, it's hard to do. I mean, it’s - here in Austin, in Texas - it's not the most pro arts environment to work in. And it's not just the attitude because, I mean, it comes down to funding as well.
Melinda: For sure.
Marcus: It’s like, where are the resources to be able to do this?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: We are pretty blessed in our department. We just got a brand-new facility.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Been working on it for - since 2013. 2014.
Melinda: Years. Yeah.
Marcus: And I wish we could expand and bring more of the community in.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: But we’ve - we run up against funding and resources and policy - obstacles that - I don't try and circumvent, of course. (Laughter)
Melinda: No, no. Nothing like that.
Marcus: Nothing like that. This is going out to a public audience. Yeah. (Laughter)
Melinda: But you find your way - you gotta find your way.
Marcus: You gotta find your way.
Melinda: To work within the system, right?
Marcus: Yeah. And do what you can and hopefully - I had a fantastic instructor at Howard. George Epting, is the lighting designer. Lighting instructor. I don't know if he's still there. But periodically, we go out on jobs with him, like, outside.
Melinda: Uh-huh. Yeah.
Marcus: And he was always insistent. “Hey, when we leave this theater, it's going to be in better shape than when we found it."
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I'm hoping that's what we're building, at least at the community college. And hopefully that can kind of -
Melinda: - filter out.
Marcus: Yeah. Push its tendrils out.
Melinda: Well, one of the things I love about ACC - and I was faculty there for five years as well - is how much it is a part of the local community, you know? And such a diverse array of the student body, but you know, so many performances and talks and things are also open to the public and yeah, it's an amazing institution, I think -
Marcus: Do some cool stuff.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: That the - I guess it’s the Philosophy Department?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Humanities Department?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's had these amazing - they’re kind of like TED Talks that they run.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's like, oh, my gosh, this is great.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's great. And what's great is, yeah, me as a professor saying that. But hearing students talking about it.
Melinda: For sure.
Marcus: I was like -
Melinda: Yeah!
Marcus: They enjoyed that. They got something out of that. Teachers are weird, aren't we?
Melinda: Oh, well, kind of. (Laughter)
Melinda: Oh, we got to be a little weird, don’t we? Especially if we're in creativity! (Laughter)
Marcus: Yeah, right? It's like the places we find our greatest joy -
Melinda: - Absolutely.
Marcus: - is seeing the light bulb go off.
Melinda: Exactly.
Marcus: It’s like - Yes.
Melinda: Yeah!
Marcus: Yes!
Melinda: Totally. I remember when I first got offered a teaching assistantship in grad school, and I had never aspired to be a teacher - and so, I mean, I was excited for the opportunity, and it was like, both terrifying (Laughter) and the most rewarding thing I had ever done. And I never could have imagined it.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: But just working with people in that way and like, watching the minds open.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Right. It's amazing.
Marcus: Talk about labor. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yes! Labor, yes! True, true. Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah - you develop new muscles when you start teaching.
Melinda: For sure. And you - then you really have to learn your stuff, right?
Marcus: Yes.
Melinda: You’re teaching it to someone else.
Marcus: You're like -
Melinda: - “Ooh, I thought I understood that, but now I have to articulate it."
Marcus: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah - it’s the best way to learn - is to teach.
Melinda: For sure. Yeah. So when you were starting out at Howard, did you go in knowing that you wanted to go into a career in theater, or how did that..?
Marcus: I mean, when I first went out there, I was young and stupid. (Laughter)
Melinda: Well, we often are at that age.
Marcus: Yeah. And that's what happens.
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: I wanted to be a playwright originally.
Melinda: Okay.
Marcus: And they didn't have a playwriting program, which I - because I didn't research.
Melinda: Right. You're like, “Wait, what?”
Marcus: I got there. I was like, “Really? Okay.” But they had directing, so, like, “Well, I don't know what that is, but it sounds - it sounds different.”
Melinda: Yeah. Playwright adjacent.
Marcus: Playwright adjacent. It was not at all. (Laughter)
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: Totally different. But, you know, in taking acting class, I was never a fantastic actor. Just enough. But two things struck me when I was reading a bunch of Amiri Baraka at the time. So I was constantly thinking about who controls the means of production.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I was watching a lot of my colleagues - that was there in the 90s - when Taraji P. Henson and Chadwick Boseman and all these other folks were there.
Melinda: Amazing.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of folks were going, like, up to Baltimore to audition and do stuff with, what was the name of the show? Homicide.
Melinda: Okay.
Marcus: Homicide. And I'd hear these stories where they come back, and they were, you know, they were getting roles as thugs and gangsters, and these are college-educated at Howard University.
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: I was like, I don't want to be on that side of things.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I want to be making the decisions.
Melinda: Yes.
Marcus: I don't want to be at the whims of some producer that rolls in and just is doing the good old fashioned Breakfast Club casting. So what type are you?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I mean, it's - and then, I think, that - coupled with the work I was doing in the shop as a carpenter, as a stagehand - married with, you know, a couple playwriting classes and some acting classes and some theater administration classes - I was suddenly interested in the clockworks of theater. You have all these different parts.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And somebody - turns out that's what directors do - (Laughter)
Marcus: - is you go –
Marcus and Melinda: - “Oh, okay!”
Marcus: Hey, somebody has to figure out how do those all fit together?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Without us seeing the seems between them. And transport the audience and allow them to suspend their disbelief for -
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: - 90 minutes.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I was like, that sounds impossible. Where do I sign up? (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah! Love it.
Marcus: And it, I mean, this was 30 years ago. I still think it's relatively impossible. But I'm convinced that theatre itself is - should be in the DSM-5.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's an addiction.
Melinda: Well –
Marcus: It's addiction.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Which is why I started that discussion podcast.
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: It's – it’s for us to talk about –
Melinda: Like, what do people do outside of theatre?
Marcus: Outside of it, what else exists?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: I'm guilty of it. My colleagues, my fellow faculty. I'm watching my students do it - jump from project to project, to project, to project, to project, with no downtime.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I get, even to this day, I get horrible post-production blues.
Melinda: And that's common, right? You come together with a bunch people to do a show –
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: - and you're doing a thing together and then it's over.
Marcus: - and it’s like, done.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah. It's like “What do I do now?”
Melinda: “What am I supposed to do with myself?”, right?
Marcus: And somebody calls us like, “Hey, will you do this project?” and you're like, “Yeah” – (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Okay. Yeah. Totally.
Marcus: And then jump into it. And, you know, it is what it is. I don't think it's the healthiest thing.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: But I don't know - I'm still trying to figure out what the alternate - alternative paradigm is.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Because on the fiscal side, you know, if you don't have a teaching gig - if you are just going, this is how you're making your money –
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: - this is how you're making your rent -
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: There’s not much else you can do. You jump from one to one, to one, to one, to one, to one.
Melinda: Right. Right.
Marcus: Which is, you know, I just want to win that mega millions and then just set up a - (Laughter)
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: This is a - artist fund grant -
Melinda: Exactly.
Marcus: The application is you put your name down, what you're doing, and you get the money.(Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah, like we need much more of that.
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: And you get health care and everything. Now go create stuff.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: That's the dream. So, maybe we can get Elon Musk to -
Melinda: Yeah - (Laughter)
Melinda: Get some arts funding.
Marcus: - Arts funding, right?
Melinda: Yeah. So, I actually just did an episode that's going to be coming out this coming week. So it’ll come out prior to your episode - with a friend of mine from my PhD program at Saybrook, John Cane, who's an actor, and he does, like, workshops on basically how, acting skills translate to people skills in the wider world –
Marcus: Yep.
Melinda: - which I think is a really fascinating endeavor, and I think one of the things I wanted to ask you specifically because you teach at a community college, you know, why - why is theatre and drama important in this day and age? Like particularly?
Marcus: I don't know. (Laughter)
Marcus: I know that - I mean, look, it's an art form - it's been around for like 5000 years.
Melinda: It’s like, one of the oldest, right?
Marcus: Yeah.
Marcus: And then you saw how - why? We've got television and radio and film and print and newspapers. Why do people gather in a place to watch someone perform a story?
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I think - it was interesting coming out of Covid - Covid lockdown.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcus: Because a lot of theaters did not, I mean, just like attendance declined. At the same time, I also watched how our in-person classes filled up, like, immediately.
Melinda: Interesting. Yeah.
Marcus: There was a hunger to be - to be in the same room, to literally breathe the same air as other people.
Melinda: Yeah. Of course.
Marcus: I think - and I know that they’re studies, people have looked at like, the physiological effects of being part of a live audience - are really interesting. Like, people's heartbeats synchronize and, I think - it's just - I think, there's something in our biology. In my intro to our theatre appreciation class, I do a - we talk about what is theatre and why - what are the origins?
Melinda: Mm-hmm.
Marcus: And one of the ideas introduces this idea of mirror neurons -
Melinda: Yes.
Marcus: - in the way that we are simply wired to want to watch people do things because -
Melinda: Yes. And it provokes empathy.
Marcus: Yes! Yes!
Melinda: Yeah!
Marcus: And we can sense, and we - when they – I tell my actors “Look, be aware of your breath on stage, because when you inhale and hold your breath, you know what the audience does?”
Melinda: The same thing.
Marcus: We do the same thing.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: “So, be conscious of that.” We become this larger organism. Which makes sense, you know? Because back in the day, if somebody looked over there and said, “There's a lion” – (Laughter)
Marcus: - or even just turned their head to look, it's probably beneficial for you to turn and look too.
Melinda: That's right. “What's going on?” Yeah!
Marcus: So maybe through evolution we've weeded out the non-theatre people. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah. Right.
Marcus: So, I think there's the kind of that - I don't know. What is that? It's neurological/physiological/psychological urge for it.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I - I also think that - this was my case and how I found it - for those who participate and make theatre, it is - it is an important safe space.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And it is as catty and competitive as we can get. If you come after a theatre person, look what whole troupe is going to be on your ass. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah! Yeah.
Marcus: We've always been a kind of a place for misfits. And I think it's because, like, as an art form, it has so many facets to it. I first started out teaching high school, and I think this is where it really sank home - is they give you a class of 40 kids, and maybe one of them has thought about, “Oh, yeah, theatre”. The rest somehow, they don't want to be there, they don't care. So, it was my task to figure out, well, is there a place for you in this art form? Do you draw? Do you like to act a fool? (Laughter)
Marcus: Do you have a great speaking voice? You have a great singing voice. Are you interested in carpentry, electronics, electrics, sound, mixing? Do you like to put makeup on people? Do you like to play dress up? (Laughter)
Marcus: There's a place for –
Melinda: There's a lot of -
Marcus: There's a lot -
Melinda: - a lot of places.
Marcus: Do you like spreadsheets?
Melinda: Right, right. Somebody has got to run the business.
Marcus: Somebody's got run a business. So there's so many slots that people can fit into, that theatre can afford to be welcoming to all. And I think, especially in an educational setting, whether it's in secondary/post-secondary, that's really important.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: It's super important. If you're in a large school and you're just drifting among the people, there needs to be a place where you can land, whether it's theatre or band or art or the football team. But I think theatre serves a particular mindset and a certain kind of kid.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: (Laughter) We have - I don't know if it's still up, but for the longest time, we had these two skulls sitting on the bookshelf in the - in our - lobby - in our faculty suite. And we thought nothing of it, until somebody came along, said, “Oh, my God - this is kind of dark.”
Melinda: “Who are these people?” (Laughter)
Marcus: It's like - but it's interesting to me, somebody made that.
Melinda: Right? Right.
Marcus: And look at the shading right there. And it's just cool and it creeps people out.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So for us, it was just like, no, it's not creepy. It's not weird.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I love being a part of a place that says – “Yeah!” -
Melinda: - “Bring it.”
Marcus: “Bring it. Bring it.”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: “You like that?”
Melinda: “Bring your weird.”
Marcus: Yeah. “We’ve got a place for you!”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: “We got we got plenty of chairs, right over here. Join the party.”
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Also, theatre parties are amazing.
Melinda: Really fun, for sure.
Marcus: Like, I went to one, I think I was in high school. I was like - and, I don't think there's any, like, alcohol or drugs there, but people were having such fun. I was like, they don't do this at football parties. (Laughter)
Melinda: Yeah! Right!
Marcus: It requires alcohol.
Melinda: Right! Right!
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: So - I love that. So, do you have any particular projects or works in progress that you might want to share about? Yeah.
Marcus: So many. So many.
Melinda: Of course.
Marcus: So outside of school, I'm working on – I’m gonna say it out loud. (Laughs)
Melinda: You heard it here first, right?
Marcus: A book series. I'm a massive fantasy and sci fi nerd. I was a listening to in N.K Jemisinon the way over here. Rereading Inheritance Trilogy. So, I'm working on - I don't know - what's a five-book called? A quintrilogy?
Melinda: Okay.
Marcus: I guess, I don't know what it's called.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: A series - I don't know what it’s going to turn into. So, I have been working on that. And along with it, I've got the other - the narrative podcast - The Burden of Legacy. And we're getting ready to record Season Two of that, which is super exciting. It's where I've been working on my fantasy languages –
Melinda: Yes!
Marcus: - and way too many characters, way too many characters! (Laughter)
Marcus: I think that's the other thing about theatre. We have, like, multiple people in our heads.
Melinda: Yes.
Marcus: And theatre allows them all to come out.
Melinda: That's right. And to find an outlet.
Marcus: Yeah. Yeah.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So I've got the writer in me that's like, “Yes! 50 characters!” And the producer and director in me is like –
Melinda: “NO!”
Marcus: “50 characters? What are you thinking?” (Laughter)
Melinda: Right!
Marcus: Yeah. So those are the two big things on the skillet right now. That is consuming my consciousness.
Melinda: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I want to, in a minute, you know, find out how people can find out more about what you're up to and ACC. But I usually like to conclude the episodes with what I call a Creativity Pro Tip -
Marcus: Ooh -
Melinda: Which is, like, something people can kind of run with and try out on their own.
Marcus: Amazing.
Melinda: So, what's something - what's like, I don't know? An exercise or an activity that people might try related to theatre and acting, whether they're in theatre or not?
Marcus: Sure. Sing out loud in the car.
Melinda: Yes! One of my favorite things to do.
Marcus: Sing out loud in the car.
Melinda: Yes!
Marcus: I find that in teaching voice, not only do students not come in warmed up to class -
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: - but they come in with 20 to 30 years’ worth of inhibitions that have been placed upon them.
Melinda: Right?
Marcus: It’s like “Sit down, shut up.” And you've been told all your life.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And theatre is the place where “No!” - I mean, this is why we get kicked out of Denny’s. (Laughter)
Melinda: Exactly! Right!
Marcus: Because theatre people will not sit down, will not shut up.
Melinda: Right!
Marcus: And I think that is important in life, whether you do theatre or not.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: You got to - you have a voice. You have a right to say what - you don't want to - you don't want to holler fire in the theater. But you do want a holler theatre.
Melinda: Yes.
Marcus: And it is increasingly important in the current climate - in the world, to not just kind of go meekly into the night.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: And I think that starts with saying “It's okay for me to be loud.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: Especially in your car. You got the windows rolled up.
Melinda: There's nothing more fun than rocking out in your car, right?
Marcus: Oh, I know.
Melinda: And as a singer, I feel like when I was a kid - and I would just, like, mimic, you know, different songs that would come on - I would try to match the vocal style and, yeah, I have classical training too, but like, that was some of the best training, you know? Yeah!
Marcus: And it's fun.
Melinda: It’s fun! Yeah!
Marcus: It's joy. There's joy.
Melinda: Yeah!
Marcus: You do that, and you get to where you're going. You get out of the car just beaming. You put your shades on, you're like, “Yeah, I rocked out!” Yeah – “Been on some journey, man!”
Melinda: Totally. I love that. Alright, sing in the car, everyone. I love that. (Laughter)
Melinda: So if people want to find out more about your shows, your teaching, the Drama program at ACC, what are the best ways to find you?
Marcus: Ooh! Let’s see if I can remember all these hashtags, and @’s – (Laughter)
Marcus: I don't think I will. (Laughter)
Marcus: So, our department's got a website, and you can go to the Austin Community College - it’s austincc.edu (website).
Melinda: Right.
Marcus: And then you can just - in the search bar, type in Drama, or anything else in the ADM division. Unfortunately, Creative Writing has left us to Arts and Humanities. But Arts and Humanities is cool -
Melinda: And shout out to Charlotte Gullick -
Marcus: Indeed.
Melinda: - for making the official connection -
Marcus: Yes! Yes!
Melinda: Even though we've, like, moved in similar circles for years. But Charlotte
Marcus: Yeah.
Melinda: - brought us together so -
Marcus: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: So you can find out about our program and all the other fantastic programs. If you get a chance, come check out Culinary at Highland Campus because it is good.
Melinda: Alright.
Marcus: My discussion podcast is Intermission: Conversations with Theater People about anything but Theater. (Laughter)
Marcus: It's available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Similar venue for my narrative podcast, The Burden of Legacy. Posted on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Melinda: Alright. And one day, a forthcoming book series. (Laughs) Okay. We'll be on the lookout for that.
Marcus: Yes, yes, yes.
Melinda: Yeah! Thank you so much, Marcus. It's been a pleasure.
Marcus: This is great.
Melinda: Yeah.
Marcus: This is fun.
Melinda: We'll have to do another one.
Marcus: We should. We absolutely should.
Melinda: Alright. Find and connect with us on YouTube and social media under Syncreate. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a review and subscribe. We're recording today at Record ATX Studios in Austin, in person, with Doctor Marcus McQuirter.
The podcast is produced in collaboration with Mike Osborne at 14th Street Studios. Thanks so much for being with us, and see you next time.
