Episode 48: Can You Learn Creativity? with Creative Director Chris McKenna

Is creativity something you’re born with, or can you learn it? In this episode, we talk with creative director and writer Chris McKenna about creativity as a skill that we can learn and practice. Chris is the founder of Wee Beastie, a creative agency based in Los Angeles. Part of his work with clients and organizations involves teaching people about the creative process. We discuss his journey from technician to creative director, and his mission to help illuminate the creative process. 

For our Creativity Pro-Tip, we encourage you to print out a picture of a lightbulb and post it on your wall. Believe it or not, this is a proven technique to stimulate creative ideation. And for a bonus tip, whenever you start to feel stalled in your creative process, go for a walk in the woods. This is another way to stimulate your mind and get the creative juices flowing again. 

Credits: The Syncreate podcast is created and hosted by Melinda Rothouse, and produced at Record ATX studios with in collaboration Michael Osborne and 14th Street Studios in Austin, Texas. Syncreate logo design by Dreux Carpenter.

If you enjoy this episode, you might also like our conversations in Episode 10: Imagination & Creativity with Dr. Diana Rivera, Episode 16: Creativity, Innovation & Leadership with Robert Cleve, PhD, Episode 38: Leadership for Creativity and Innovation with Jamie Gallagher.

At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea for a project or a new venture, and you’re not sure how to get it off the ground, find us at syncreate.org. Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your creative goals. We offer resources, creative process tools, and coaching to help you bring your work to the world. You can find more information on our website, where you can also find all of our podcast episodes. Find and connect with us on social media and YouTube under Syncreate, and we’re now on Patreon as well. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review!

Episode-specific hyperlinks: 

Wee Beastie Website

Chris McKenna on LinkedIn

Final Pixel Website

Creativity Conference at Southern Oregon University

Dr. Ruth Richards, Creativity Scholar

Show / permanent hyperlinks: 

The Syncreate Podcast

Syncreate Website

Syncreate Instagram

Syncreate Facebook

Syncreate LinkedIn

Syncreate YouTube

Melinda Rothouse Website

Austin Writing Coach

Melinda Joy Music Website

Transcript

Melinda: Welcome to Syncreate, a show where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology and spirituality. We believe everyone has the capacity to create. Our goal is to demystify the process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative. We talk with visionaries and changemakers and everyday creatives working in a wide range of fields and mediums, from arts to science, technology and business. We aim to illuminate the creative process, from imagination to innovation and everything in between. 

I'm Melinda Rothouse, and I help individuals and organizations bring their dreams and visions to life. At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors. If you have an idea for a project or new venture and you're not sure how to get it off the ground, find us at syncreate.org. Our book, also called Syncreate, walks you through the stages of the creative process so you can take action on your creative goals. We also offer resources, creative process tools and coaching to help bring your work to the world. 

So I'm excited today to have my new friend and colleague Chris McKenna on the show. Welcome, Chris. 

Chris: Hi, good morning.

Melinda: It's great to have you here. And, so we met recently at the creativity conference at Southern Oregon University, which I've been attending for a few years. It's a great little creativity-focused conference. And, we got talking afterwards and found we had a lot in common around creativity and how we sort of approach creativity. So I'm going to introduce you a little bit more here.

So from your bio, I saw this phrase “The Talent Whisperer,” which I really enjoyed. He's the chief creative officer at Final Pixel, a global creative studio, as well as the director at Wee Beastie. And I'm going to have to ask you about that a little later. You're a writer and director of films and commercials, originally from Scotland.

You got your start with the BBC and then later worked with the Discovery Company. And you also, and what I'm kind of most interested in our conversation today, is you teach people and organizations about the creative process and I think your approach to this is very much in line with what we're trying to do at Syncreate around demystifying the creative process and kind of, broadening the boundaries of what it means to be creative, who can be creative, all that kind of stuff.

So, we've been talking a bit about your own journey as a creative over the years, and I think it really exemplifies, this, this, kind of, I don't know, how the creative journey works and, a lot of misconceptions. So, share with us a little bit about kind of how you got started in the creative realm and where it's gotten you to at this point.

Chris: Absolutely. So, I do a lot of creative direction. That's a lot of my job. Creativity is kind of a daily part of my job. And, I've been doing that for, for decades. And, and I love it and I enjoy it, but I didn't start out like that. 

Melinda: Yeah.

Chris: I started out as a technician, and it happened like this. I was in high school and both at the age of 11, 12, I was told, “Chris, you, you need, you're really good at math and science. You need to focus on your math and your science and, and let's, let's drop all your arts subjects. You don't you don't need to be doing art. You don't need to be doing any craft stuff and woodwork. Let's get you dropping all those subjects and stick in science.” And so I was kind of streamed in high school.

Melinda: Which is kind of typical in the UK educational system, right? Like you sort of encouraged to find one thing that you're really good at?

Chris: Yeah, that's, that's absolutely true. And people say to you, “What are you good at?” And that's what you should do for the rest of your life as your career. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: And I, I was streamed right into doing a degree in computer science, and it wasn't until I was at university and I realized I absolutely hated it. 

Melinda: Right. 

Chris: And didn't enjoy it at all. And I really wanted to do creative stuff. I wanted to be a filmmaker, a writer. And I thought, well, I guess, I guess my life is going to be as a computer engineer. That's, that's what I'm going to be doing. And actually my first job in television was as an engineer. And at the time, though, I, I was working for a TV station in the UK, and one day I was walking through the studios and I heard a noise coming from inside of a studio that I thought was, was empty and closed.

I poked my head in and I saw about 50 people working on shooting a commercial. And there was like, like wardrobe people and camera crew and everything. And then in the middle of all that, I saw one guy who was the director, and I saw him saying, “Okay, action.” And I had this kind of epiphany, this moment of like, “Oh, my God, that, that's what I want to do.”

Melinda: Yeah.

Chris: And I thought, “Well, I can’t, I'm an engineer.” I'm like, “I mean, I, you know, I've been pushed into engineering, it’s, it's my future.” And I went back to my parents’ house and I told my mom my, my dilemma. I told her I was stressed about this, and how could I be creative? And she said, “Hang on a minute.”

And she went up into the attic and she pulled out all my school reports, from when I was five, six, seven. And she said, “Read this.” And they all said things like, “Chris is very creative. Chris is really artistic. Chris is a great writer.” And I was I was like, no way. And I think that, that initial kind of like, realignment, helped me realize that, “Oh, maybe I, maybe I can do this. Maybe, maybe this is what I can do.” And that kind of started me on my journey towards having a more creative life. 

Melinda: Yeah. And I think that is, that happens so often to us. We get these messages from outside, right, from the outside world, whether it's the educational system or well-meaning people that, you know, want us to have a practical livelihood or something that, you know, trying to steer us away from creativity.

Chris: I'm a big believer in Joseph Campbell's “follow your bliss.” 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: I really think that fulfillment in life comes from really enjoying what you're doing. And if you are really good at something and you love it, great. But if you're not good at something and you love it, well, for me, that's just the sign to, to become good at that thing, you know?

Melinda: Right. And the more passion and energy we feel around any given endeavor, you know, the more we're going to throw ourselves into it fully. Right?

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And I so I managed to start pushing my way towards creative work. And I found myself at, another very large company, broadcaster in the UK who shall remain nameless, but they're the BBC. 

Melinda: [Laughter] Nice one.

Chris: And when I was there, I was still a technician, but they had a creative department that, that I was trying to get into. And I fought really hard. I was like, “I want a shot. Let me in, let me do this. I can, I can write.” And my boss at the time said, “Well, Chris, you know, yes, you you're a creative problem solver, but we don't really see you as a creative. And, you know, the kind of people that we need in this department are the kind of people who, when they're walking down the street, ideas are just falling out of their head. Is that you, Chris? Is that you, really?” And I said, “Well, I'm going to give it a go. I'll try.” 

And they, they finally gave me a, a six-month attachment, a secondment. So they allowed me to try. And it was, it was really tough. It was really tough. I think I told you before I had what I called ‘sick shower.’ My boss would be expecting three great ideas at 10 a.m.

Melinda: Right. 

Chris: And I would get up at 5:00 [a.m.], and I would stand in the shower. Just like thinking, “I can’t do this. This is, like, just so impossible. I can't do it. I can't do it.” And eventually I would kind of squeeze out three mediocre ideas. And at the time, they didn't train you. They didn't give you any training or any teacher on how to be creative or how to come up with ideas. They just made you feel like, “Oh, you have to be born with this.” And if you're not, you don't belong here. You're not one of the cool kids.

Melinda: Right.

Chris: Look at all the cool kids. They’re, you know, wearing the really cool clothes and the shades. Those are the creatives. And that’s not you. And I have to say, I fell in to books. I fell into books and learning. I went to the library and I just scoured the place for anything that could suggest that creativity was something you can learn.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: Because even in one of the most creative companies in the world, in their creative services department, it was made, I was made to feel like, “No, it's not something you can be taught. It's just something you just have to have. Innate.” 

Melinda: Right. Which is exactly one of the myths that we're trying to dispel here. Yeah. 

Chris: Yeah. And, and I was lucky I found literature. You know, I started finding studies that showed, “No, you can teach this. This is something you can learn.” And I got a big boost from, there was this guy there who was, like, the uber creative. He was the guy that got to direct all the big shoots. He was the best writer. Everybody loved him. And he was a really nice guy as well. 

Melinda: Right.

Chris: Which is always the worst, you’re like, “No! He's really nice.” But he's amazing. And he would come into the office at middle of the morning, sit with his feet on his desk, chat to people, have a long lunch, and then go home, and then turn out the most incredible work. And I said to my friend Heather, I said, “How does he do it? How, how? It's incredible. He's clearly born a genius.”

And she said, “Chris, no, no, no, no, I know him. He's a good friend of mine. He doesn't do any work in the office. He goes home and he works his ass off until 2:00 in the morning every night. And that's how he does it.” And that was like, what clicked. That was how it clicked for me. I was like, “Oh, it's just work. It's just hard work.”

Melinda: Yes. Time in.

Chris: And that sets you on the path to like, “Well, what is the work? What is the work that you have to do to, to be creative?” And so I spent the next few years kind of researching that and trying to figure out what it was.

And then I started teaching other people because I didn't want anyone else to go through what I had gone through. So when I came to the US, the BBC sent me to the US, and I came here and I found no one in any of the creative departments really gets much training. So I'm like, I’m going to pass on what I learned.

And so for the last 20 years, I've been kind of building up a big training and teaching practice with companies where I go in and, and show them what the work is that you need to do to become creative. 

Melinda: Yes, beautiful. And how do you go about that and how do you, you know, kind of go into these companies? Well, some of them are creative companies, right? But they're not necessarily training people how to be creative. Or others, like, for example, I was just presenting at a conference of spine and neurosurgeons over the weekend and, you know, out of, you know, some 60 or so people in the room, I asked how many people here consider themselves creative, and only three people raised their hands, which was astonishing to me. So these beliefs persist. So how do you go about teaching people how to be creative? 

Chris: Well, the first thing is, is the belief. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And my favorite stuff to talk about in, in kind of changing people's perceptions is, is talking about the brain and talking about the biochemical nature of creativity, which is that, we've all got a brain. We all have a brain, that the only purpose of the brain really is to make connections.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: And, and that's basically all it does all day long. It's the greatest connection machine in the universe. And that's really all creativity is. It's bringing things together that have not been brought together before to create something new. And I just talk quite a bit about neuroscience and about how we all can do this because it's our basic function.

Melinda: Right. We all have the apparatus, right? It's like I tell people who, they're like, “I can't sing,” you know? Well, we all have the instrument, you know, and so if we train and we may or may not be an inherently, you know, natural singer, but we can all learn that and develop that to some extent. 

Chris: And if you go to a singing teacher, they will tell you, “You may think, yes, you may think you're tone deaf, but I can teach you. I can train you.” 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: And that kind-of sense of possibility is something that in creativity is, where are the creativity teachers? You know, they don't really exist for ordinary people. And so I, I kind of show them like, anyone can do this, you just have to do the work. And then the next step, you know, once you kind-of open people's minds to this next step is saying, “Okay, what is the work? Define creativity in your industry. And then let's look at what work do you have to do to be able to be creative?” And, and the that's the other thing, definition of creativity is, is so elusive for so many people. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: The academic ones are kind of necessarily so abstract because they have to apply to every possible case. And so what I tend to do is, is within each of the industries and organizations I teach at, I bring them, “Okay, here's the definition of creativity for you. Here's, what it is for you.” And for example, in, in advertising, it's, it's to take two preexisting ideas and put them together to create something that's completely new, novel, and useful.

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And, and once you have that, you're like, “Okay, that's, that, that's what creativity is. Okay.” Once you have that, you can then say, “Okay. And now I can kind of figure out what the work is I need to do to achieve that,” you know? And that gives me an idea of where we go from here.

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And, and I think that's a big challenge for most people because we ask someone to define creativity, like in your, in your, your spinal surgeons, neurosurgeons conference, you asked someone, “What is creativity?” Most of the answers are going to be like, “Oh, it's ineffable. It's something in the universe. It's lightning in a bottle.”

Melinda: Or, “It's something for artists or whatever,” you know? And these are people who are collaborating with, you know, medical device companies to create these amazing innovations for spinal, you know, implants, but they don't see themselves as creative. It's amazing.

Chris: Isn't it? It's crazy. It's crazy. And I, kind of, for me, I just want to evangelize. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: I want to talk to as many people as possible and, and say, you know, like my, I talk to my mom. My mom's like, “I'm not creative, Chris.” I'm like, ”But you are, you absolutely are. You absolutely are. And there's so much evidence for the fact that you are.”

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: But we, we kind of have this personal narrative that's been handed to us by society that creativity is just something unique and special, and it's not accessible to everybody. 

Melinda: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One of my mentors, Ruth Richards, she has done a lot of, of work in research around this idea of everyday creativity. So we kind of have that eminent creativity, right? The, the masterworks and the, and that kind of thing. But, you know, we're all using our problem-solving skills all the time, every day just to get through life. And it can be, as you know, sort of mundane and ordinary as cooking a meal or growing a garden or how we decorate our house or, you know, just navigating the challenges of life. Right? 

Chris: Absolutely. And it's essential for everybody. It's, it's something that we, we all need because I think that it, it gives you pleasure in what you're doing.

Melinda: Yeah.

Chris: And it enhances your life, and it makes you feel better and, and also opens up possibilities. And that, for so many of us, especially in careers, our possibilities are just limited.

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And we self-limit and society limits. And if you can encourage people to, to kind of access their creativity, then it opens up a new world for them and allows them to do things that they didn't think they could do.

Melinda: Yes, absolutely. I think that opening up of possibilities, you know, creativity is correlated to openness to experience, a personality trait. Right? And that's, you know, just that being open to try new things, go new places, drive a different route to work, whatever it might be. Yeah. 

Chris: It's interesting. I came back from a trip recently, and, I was installing my daughter's car seat, and for ten years I've been installing car seats one way. And it's been kind of fiddly and annoying. And then, because I'd been away for a few weeks, I came back and I put the car seat in the car, and I like, went, oh, I can do it completely differently. And this is better. 

Melinda: Wow. 

Chris: And, I had this moment of inspiration. I was like, you know, you some, you just have to walk away from something.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: And you come back to it and you see it completely differently. You see different possibilities and, and it's great creativity. If you can have somebody externally help you do that to, to step away. And that's why when I do training, I love getting these people away from their desk and away from the office. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And talking to them, because it opens their minds. And I love to see people excited about their job again. And excited about their work. But also people who think, “Well, maybe I, maybe I can do that, that other job that I want to do that I, maybe I can get that creative role that I, I didn't think I was suitable for before. 

Melinda: Definitely. So I'm curious, maybe among the people that we traditionally think of as creatives, particularly in the, you know, film, TV, advertising industries, is there any resistance to this? You know, because as you were describing before, there's certain people that kind of capitalize on this idea that, well, only certain people have it or you're born that way or something like that. So.

Chris: There's definitely, that outer layer of, of people who, who maybe are not doing the creative work and they perceive the creatives as being somehow special, but there's definitely a boundary that you cross when you start working and you start to see, okay, it is just work.

And, a good example for that is screenwriting. And I know so many people over my lifetime, everyone's got some amazing idea for a screenplay that they just haven’t finished writing yet.

Melinda: Right? [Laughter]

Chris: They're just trying to execute, and, and at the same time, now, I know a bunch of real working screenwriters in Hollywood. And the big difference between those two groups of people is that the working screenwriters wrote ten mediocre screenplays.

Melinda: Right.

Chris: One after the other, over the space of many years. And, and in that time, they, they became great writers. And it wasn't that they somehow just access some latent creativity that, that, that they had never really used before. It was because they actually realized what the work is. 

And that people in that kind of outer layer, they perhaps don't really realize what the work is. They think the work is to be genius, to be creative, to, to be, super inspired. But really the work is putting pen to paper. 

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: And bashing the keyboard. And start writing. And it, it's, there's a, it's just a moment of realization, I think, that most people have to go through. And I think there's probably the same, that was kind of the same for me. But my growth was through a more abstract area that people didn't know about, where screenwriting… everyone's teaching screenwriting all the time these days. And so I think there was more scope for people to, to cross that boundary and learn about it. But it just really comes down to work and you do the work. And I'm always amazed by how well the brain responds to being exercised.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: And I find myself teaching ideation and brainstorming and trying to get people to have ideas, and I watch my own brain go, “Oh, how about this idea? How about that idea? How about that idea? How about that idea?” And I'm like, it’s almost too much sometimes. It's just like a constant stream of ideas.

And it's, that's not because I am in any way special. It’s not because I am in any way, inspired, but because I just practiced and practiced and practiced for 25, 30 years, doing this. 

Melinda: You’re exercising it. Yeah. So I'm curious, obviously you work with a team of people, and, and different, teams depending on different projects that you're working on. So, I'm curious about the, the team dynamics around creativity and collaboration. That was something I was really interested in my graduate research. And, and kind of how you go about building and leading a creative team. 

Chris: It's interesting because in many creative industries, it's the awards that drive remuneration, employment opportunities. And those awards are tied to individual creative achievements.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: And so how do you build a team where everybody can be creative and everybody can contribute? And what we did in the agencies that I've started and I've started a few different creative companies now, and we, we built just this whole concept that anyone can be creative and build that into the DNA of, of the organizations, especially in the company you mentioned, Wee Beastie, which is an ad agency that we've been running for the last 20 years. And, and we actually wrote it into the company charter and we were like, look, this is where we come, this is where we come from. You want to come to our company? Yes, we will win awards, but those awards will be all of it, for all of us.

Melinda: Yes.

Chris: Individually, we are a place where anyone can be creative and we'll teach you how to be creative, and we will encourage your creativity and reward it within the company. And so that actually turned out to be incredibly exciting for, for all the people that came and worked with us. We have an incredible reputation, amongst our former staff.

They just love us. And we did things like, we brought a lot of processes that put creativity into daily work. And talked about creativity every day. For example, I've worked at many large corporations who say they value creativity, and they want people to constantly be refilling the creative well, but they will not give you any time to walk out of your office and, and go and take a walk in the woods and get inspired, or go to a museum, because they're too busy and they're like, “We can't let you do that.” And anyway, it's kind of airy-fairy, like, fake work, like. So they speak one thing and they act another way. 

Melinda: Yes, I know, it's like they say they value creativity and innovation. Then they actually stifle it with their policies. And as you're saying, you know, we, we need that time away. We call it sort of creative incubation, for those ideas and associations to gather. Right? And there are some companies, like Google, that actually allow people time to step away and work on whatever they want to. But most organizations are so deadline-driven and bottom-line driven that they, they just can't bring themselves, right, to do that. Even though in the end, it would actually generate more innovation.

Chris: And a big reason for that, I think is metrics. It's hard to say, this amount of time spent on creative thinking results in this amount of money at the bottom line. 

Melinda: Right.

Chris: And that's a hard connection to make. And it takes a really inspirational company leader to go and take the leap and allow that. And I spend a lot of time with corporations saying, you have to give your staff time for this. And what we did within our company is we had scheduled inspiration days, and then each employee is told, you have to take one a month. You have to.

Melinda: Yeah.

Chris: You have to leave the office. And then what we did is we said, we give it a bit structure, and we said, you have to leave the office and go and do something interesting and then come back to the team and give us a 20-minute talk about whatever you did.

Melinda: Great.

Chris: And so we had people going to the, the Edison Museum in New Jersey, going to art exhibitions, and they would come back and just share the most, the most interesting aspects of whatever it was and maybe what they’d learned. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: And so that personal creativity helped kind of build the team creativity. And that was that was one thing that we did. We also had regular ideation sessions. And we really worked at making those super efficient and enjoyable and productive. And most companies, like, they just can't do brainstorming. They just can't. There's, there's too many reasons why it doesn't work. And so what we did is we, we figured out, “Okay, this is the best way to do it.”

And we made everybody learn the rules. And we did it the same way every time, every couple of days. And so we just had this culture of like, constant ideation. And then we combined that with in-house seminars, constant training. We’d like, constantly be doing, every week we do a seminar on ideation, creativity, branding, writing, directing. And everyone would come to that. And so there's this kind of constant learning, as part of the company culture. 

Melinda: Yes, I love that. And I love that you're talking about culture, because it really strikes me, you know, how you wrote it into the charter. You know, you're walking the walk because you know, and, and you're just you're building it in so it's an organic part of, you know, not only the charter but the day-to-day activities of the organization. And I can imagine that is very compelling for, you know, people to come and want to work with you. 

Chris: Yeah, people, people loved working with us and our clients, loved working with us. We had, our mission was to exceed expectations, delight the clients, and inspire clients. And that inspire one, what’s so interesting… We would often get clients come back to us and say, “You know, it's funny, working with you guys is kind of inspiring.” Yes!

Melinda: Yes. That's it!

Chris: We never told them that was our mission, that we, that was our goal. And we, and so we also constantly with send our clients things to provoke thought. We never sent out tchotchkes and stuff. We would send people books. We would send clients books on creativity, books on filmmaking, as gifts. And, and we would, we would offer them seminars on creativity. And that's how I started doing the teaching for clients is because in the beginning, it was just us trying to, to encourage clients to think more creatively. And that just grew into them bringing us in to actually teach whole teams. 

Melinda: That's amazing. 

Chris: Yeah. So it's all about inspiration, you know? 

Melinda: Yeah. So I'm curious of all the, you know, all the projects that you've done over the years, what were a couple of the highlights for you? 

Chris: So, I love directing. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: The directing. And, but it's very difficult to get hired as a director, especially in commercials. Nobody really cares. No one cares that you're a director. Nobody wants to hire directors. Directors are like, really out on their own when it comes to trying to get work. So what I did was I built a companies that could go and get the work from the client, and then he'd hire me to direct it.

Melinda: Got it.

Chris: So that's, actors do this. I learned this from actors. They call it making your own work. So if you're an actor and you can't get hired and no one's casting you in anything, well, get some friends together and go and make a movie. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: And be good. 

Melinda: Exactly.

Chris: And so I took that into the advertising world, and so started at agencies and, and so I could direct stuff. And so I found the directing, incredibly creative and artistic process, really, really enjoy it. But it's interesting because it also appeals to the logistical side of my brain, which, you know, I was a technician in my early years in my first career. And, you know, I still have a facility for that. So I like problem solving and creative problem solving so that combining that are, an, a challenge, logistical challenge is best. And I think the hardest thing that we've ever, a couple of really tough things. We made a TV show in Alaska in middle of the bush, in the middle of nowhere, like 40-minute drive from the nearest village. Not even from the nearest town. And, and in that world, we, we shot and produced a TV show that was sponsored by a client.

But just all the challenges of shooting in Alaska. 

Melinda: Oh, yeah.

Chris: Doing aerial filming in a bush plane, being snowed in, having to get everywhere by snowmobile. That was like, the best. And I love doing that. And that that kind of led on to do more similar projects. We also did, some work for Land Rover that involved us going to Jamaica and Canada and the UK and, and Bolivia.

Melinda: Wow. 

Chris: And in Bolivia we took a Land Rover, a brand-new Land Rover to the Salar de Uyuni, which is a salt flat, over the mountains that gets covered with a little bit of, a little bit of water every January. And when it has that water on it, it turns into the biggest mirror in the world.

Melinda: Yeah.

Chris: Like, like miles and miles and miles and miles; it was incredible. Mirrored surface, surrounded by mountains of salt in this kind of white environment. And that, was impossibly difficult because there was a transit strike while we were shooting and we couldn't get, we couldn't get the car where we needed to be. We were in this isolated location. We had clients and a huge crew. And that, for me, that, being creative under extreme duress is the best. And it kind of goes back to one of the, the basic aspects of, of being creative is needing to have limitation. 

Melinda: Yes. Creativity is bred from constraints, right? Yes. 

Chris: Constraints. And, and filmmaking is the ultimate constraints. And you're constantly working within a bunch of ever-changing boundaries and, and constraints and rules. And within all of that, you have to come up with something that's new and fresh and interesting. And that for me, is great practice on dealing with constraints. 

Melinda: For sure.

Chris: It's definitely a topic I talk to clients a lot about is like, if you… so many people, they think brainstorming means blue sky thinking.

Melinda: Facing the blank page or whatever. Yeah. 

Chris: And you can do anything. Do anything. It's like, you can't, you cannot be creative in that situation. 

Melinda: Right. Yeah. Well, I love that you, you're making this connection between, really challenging circumstances and, and again, with these constraints, then you have to really figure out the problem-solving skills to navigate the environment that you're in or the constraints that you're dealing with.

It kind of reminds me of the idea of, the flow state, right, where there's a situation that is both challenging and engaging. Right? Yeah.

Chris: Yeah, that's absolutely, that's the best place to be. And I think, you know, in terms of “follow your bliss,” I feel like achieving flow in anything, in any kind of work, is probably the Holy grail.

Melinda: Yes. The best feeling, right. 

Chris: Yeah. It's, it's so pleasant, so fulfilling. And you, you really come out of that feeling like you've grown somewhat. And yeah. No, I, directing and filmmaking really gives you that. It really. I mean, it's also like being on a roller coaster that's got no brakes, going 300 miles an hour, you know? [Laughter] And, you know, there's, there's light at the end of the tunnel, but you're pretty sure that it's a train coming right? 

Melinda: [Laughter] It's thrilling. Yeah. 

Chris: It's fun, it's fun. 

Melinda: That's great. So we are getting toward the end of time, and I usually like to end each episode with what I call a Creativity Pro-Tip. So, something that listeners, watchers can sort of take away and implement on their own. And so I'm curious, kind of what, based on your teaching of creativity, what's one tip or strategy that you would offer to people even just starting out in their creative journey or looking to, you know, re-energize their creativity?

Chris: Absolutely. There, there's, I’ll give two, one that I came across a while ago that, that I know my clients have used and it absolutely works, which is you print out a picture of a light bulb and stick it on your wall, and it's scientifically proven that you will be more creative if you do that. 

Melinda: Fascinating. I have not heard that one. Okay, great. 

Chris: There's a study. And I think the underlying science of it is that you just start to be open to more possibilities. 

Melinda: Yeah. 

Chris: Just like okay, I'm, I'm, I'm going to be creative. And, and secondly, the absolute science underscored, evidence-backed taking a walk in nature... 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: …is absolutely the best place to go to allow your brain to, to start making the connections. And we're constantly surrounded by technology. We're constantly occupied. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And you have to de-occupy yourself. And the best way to do that, that… I don't know if this has been studied or not, but to me, it's, it's, the equivalent of visual white noise when you're in nature. And there's so much complexity around you. But it's so random and it's, it's, there's no patterns, really, for you to like, for your brain to lock on to and start analyzing and thinking about, so it like, forces you to kind of disconnect.

And in that in that process of disconnection, your brain then has the space to start making connections. And like we said earlier, like, making connections is the essence of creativity. 

Melinda: Yes. 

Chris: And so, I would advise that for, for anybody. Just go out and start walking in nature.

Melinda: I love that. Yeah. And again, that's a perfect time for incubation, just to let your mind wander, see what arises, and then you might come back with a great new idea. 

Chris: Absolutely.

Melinda: Love that. All right. Well, thank you so much, Chris. And if people want to learn more about your work, where can they find you? 

Chris: Oh, they, they can see this stuff we've, we've made at weebeastie.tv. It's weebeastie.tv. And, and then the last couple of years, we've been doing a lot of virtual production. And you can check that out at finalpixel.com. 

Melinda: Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. 

So thanks again to Chris McKenna for being with us today. Find and connect with us at syncreate.org and all the major podcast platforms. We're also on YouTube and social media under Syncreate. We're on Patreon as well. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review.

And we're recording today at Record ATX Studios in Austin with Chris coming in from Los Angeles. The show is produced in collaboration with Mike Osborne at 14th Street Studios in Austin. Thanks so much for being with us. And see you next time.