Melinda: Welcome to Syncreate, a show where we explore the intersections between creativity, psychology and spirituality. We believe everyone has the capacity to create. Our goal is to demystify the process and expand the boundaries of what it means to be creative. I'm Melinda Rothouse, and I help individuals and organizations bring their dreams and visions to life.
Charlotte: And I'm Charlotte Gulick. I'm a writer, educator, and writing coach. We're the co-authors of a book on the creative process, also called, Syncreate.
Melinda: At Syncreate, we're here to support your creative endeavors.
Charlotte: You can find more information on our website syncreate.org where you can also find all of our podcast episodes.
So welcome to the Syncreate podcast. And today we're going to talk about: What do you do when you've been given some feedback and some time has passed? And since we talked about in previous shows how we really emphasize that feedback is an important part of our growth process, and how we need to be careful with who we get feedback from and how we receive it, we want to talk a little bit more about what we do with feedback after a little bit of time has passed.
Because we have negativity bias, the feedback that we've been given, likely sits within us in a negative way. And that's also part of evolution because we pay attention to the negativity. We don't let the positivity rise to the forefront. And so sometimes when we've been giving feedback on a project, we might start to feel bad about the project, or feel bad about the feedback itself.
And so, one of the things that I suggest to people, and I have been known to do this myself, is you know, let's say I've written a chapter of something and I get some feedback on it. What I tend to do is look through it really quickly, and probably not, when I was younger, in the not best of circumstances, like in the car or even in the bathroom.
Melinda: Mmm. [Laughter].
Charlotte: After I'm like, “Do people like it? What's bad about it?” And then I wouldn't look at it again and it would live in my head as this really like, “Oh, they said it wasn't any good,” or “They said this or that.” And, I have learned that, I should be, the place where I am when I receive the feedback, should be a positive place where I'm taking some time, and respecting the time and energy of, you, as you've talked about before, to be grateful for it and to be generous with myself as I'm receiving it.
And then, I have also been known, I’ve gotten feedback on a book proposal. And I remember standing up, I was in a coffee shop in Austin and I was like, “Thank you so much for the feedback.” And then I stood up and I remember thinking, “I guess I should not, I should give up on the whole project.”
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: And I had that feeling for about five minutes. And then by the time I got to the car, I realized, “Oh, I just don't know how to fix it yet.”
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: So, I needed something, like, the difference between this is, this feedback means it's no good, or this feedback is: you don't know how to solve the problem yet.
Melinda: Right.
Charlotte: So, I think this happens across all genres, and that, one of the things that we can do is to take some time away.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: Did you want to jump in there?
Melinda: Yeah. So, I think there's also a delicate balance. Because, you know, any feedback that we get, unless it's from like random trolls or something, you know, but any feedback that we actually solicit, even if it's hard to receive initially, just so important to keep in mind: it's for the betterment of the work. And I'm thinking about, you know, feedback I got on my first book and then on an academic journal article that was published, I think, last year.
And in both cases, like the feedback was very thoughtful, and I knew it was going to make the work better. And it was like, “Oh man, I have a lot to do.” [Laughter] You know?
Charlotte: Mmm.
Melinda: Like, you get to a place where you actually submit something and you're like, “Okay, I feel pretty good about this. Like I've worked on it a lot.” And then you get feedback from other pairs of eyes, probably more experienced, in this case like editors and, and it's like, “Oh, okay, I need to go do a bunch more research” or okay, like, you know, it takes time. It does take time. So, there's this balance, right, between taking it in, how we take it in, stepping away for a little bit, and letting it kind of, you know, percolate in the back of our mind without fixating on the negative.
Charlotte: Mmm Hmm.
Melinda: As you said. And then, and then coming back and just kind of like, “Okay, how do I tackle this?” Right?
Charlotte: And things that I have done is like, I make a specific list, you know.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: So then I can check things off so I feel empowered.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: Because it’s, I've made it incremental progress that I can do. I also think that the constant movement, for me and I feel like this might be true for some other folks, is between audacity and humility. The audacity to say, “I can write a brand new play,” or “I can make a new dance, or write a new song.” It's like, yeah, you need that, that audacity to say you can do it, and then it's not going to be perfect on the first go. I'm so sorry. That's how it works. And then the humility to say, ‘I need help to figure out how to do this,’ and then getting feedback on it.
And then with returning back to audacity, “I can tackle the next go-round.” And moving back and forth is really key to it. So, I, you know, one of the things that I suggest is taking a couple weeks and letting the feedback kind of metabolize, and then looking at it again, and then whatever your medium is, coming back and returning to that medium.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: So, what I often do is, with feedback is, I'll sit down and read it again, and then I'm like, “Oh, this isn't as negative as I thought it was.”
Melinda: Right. Or “Oh, I can do this. I see what needs to happen now.” Yeah. No. And I love that. The thing about audacity and humility, because I just saw something this morning from Rick Rubin where he was saying, like, “Banish all self-doubt and proceed,” you know, like we…
Charlotte: [Laughter]
Melinda: We do kind of have to have that audacity in order to put something out there. Right? And then, and then, yeah, you know, the humility of like, “Oh, but this can be improved.
Charlotte: It can be improved, and I'm the one that can do it. And I all that, like, I think for me, balancing feedback with how I feel beholden to the project.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: Why did I get started? Kind of return to your mission around it.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: It's, can be helpful too.
Melinda: So, I want to ask you a question. So, when you're giving feedback, you know, to students or, you know, fellow writers or whatever, like how do you approach it? Like, I know, for example, you've, you know, done some work reviewing manuscripts for various, you know, contexts. How do you go about it?
Charlotte: Well, I think that, I mean, well first of all is, I ask myself, “What was this person trying to do?”
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: And how, do I understand what they're trying to do? And if I do, this is where I think they're, where it's working, and this is what I think they can do to get there.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: And they say that a really good mentor is someone who stands alongside you and points the direction that you're trying to go.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: And it's, you know, I love that image because it's a shared, it's an, it's collaborative. It's not hierarchical.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: So, what is this person trying to do? Do I think I get it, what they're trying to do?
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: If I have the opportunity, I’ll ask them, “Why is this important to you?”
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: ‘Cause I’ve had people make comments about my work and not ask why something was important.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: And I, you know, “This is what I think you're doing well,” because I think that's important. And then as specific as I can, line out what it is that could be improved. And then I also say, “If I were in your shoes,” I give kind of a tackle plan, like…
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: Here's one way you can approach it, or here's another way that you can approach it.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm. Yeah.
Charlotte: So how about for you? How do you give feedback?
Melinda: Yeah, I love that. Well, what that brings up for me, couple things is, like when I give feedback to people in writing specifically, I often say, “Okay, well, here are my thoughts. And ultimately, this is your work. You get to decide what feels helpful, what's constructive, and what's maybe just not landing for you. And like they say in AA, take what's helpful and leave the rest, you know.” You, ultimately, you are the author of the work, or ‘the composer,’ or ‘the designer,’ or whatever it is.
And, and I think it's important to be able to receive and take in feedback, you know, and recognize the ways that it can be improved. And then also to say, “Well, no, I'm not sure that person actually really understand what I was going for here, or I'm not sure if that's really resonating for me.” And that's okay too. Right?
So you don't have to take and incorporate and deal with like every single piece of feedback, but you get to use your discernment in receiving it. And then another piece is, you know, when we teach contemplative photography, you know, we're not like, judging or critiquing the work, particularly. We have people go out on an assignment, we give them an assignment, whether it's like, you know, color, or light and shadow, or pattern, texture, whatever it might be.
And, you know, they're just focusing on this one element of the visual field. And then, you know, coming back, we take a look at the photos and the question we ask is, you know, “What did you see?”
Charlotte: Mmm.
Melinda: “And is the image that you're sharing, does it convey what you saw?” You know, can we feel it as we're looking at? Do we see what you saw? You know, so it's not like, this is good, this is bad. But does it convey what caught your eye? So.
Charlotte: I think I circled back on to, like, with the desire to be known and…
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: Do we, do, does, do other people see and experience the world in the way that I, I am? And to be known, and that, ‘”this is what they're conveying.” It's like the gap, I think about, like, “Oh I got a vision.” You were talking about this in a previous episode. “I got a vision for what's possible, but what do I have to work with? Letters?”
Melinda: [Laughter]. Yeah.
Charlotte: Right? Like, the medium itself is inherently disappointing to what we imagine is possible. And then, and, you know, for me, like, a draft is an approximation of that vision.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: A translation. And how close to I did I get to it? And so. “Oh, I was pretty far off.” So, I need to keep working on that translation of the vision with these insufficient or inadequate tools, including myself as one of those tools. (I just called myself a tool).
Melinda: Whoa. [Laughter]. I love that. And but, you know, that's the thing. The limitations are also, you know, creativity is bred from constraints, they say. Right? So, the limitations also, you know, they do confine, they, they create boundaries. But then, that's where like the creative muscle, like there's this analogy of like, gardening where, you know, you don't want to like, over coddle your plants because, you know, and water them and give them everything they need all the time because you want them to grow roots and to find their own nutrients, and you know, to become resilient.
And it's the same, I think, with the creative work, like sometimes we have these constraints or, or we can't quite realize our vision, but, and that's where the, we really have to get creative. So.
Charlotte: Dig deep.
Melinda: Yeah. Dig deep. That’s it.
Charlotte: Can I say one more thing?
Melinda: Yes.
Charlotte: So also remember that the feedback that we don't respond to is helping us define our relationship to the work.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: So, someone says something and you’re like, “Oh, I now know that that is not the direction I wanted to go.” And that actually is really helpful.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: Because it's helping us tune in to what we believe the work is about.
Melinda: Yes.
Charlotte: So that, I’m like, “Oh that person, oh no, that, ooh” you know, like that in itself helps us define our relationship to what's possible.
Melinda: Absolutely. Great. So, our Creativity Pro-Tip for today is to, you know, specifically go out and request some feedback from someone you trust, and to receive that feedback in a sort of mindful, present way, and then maybe put it down. Right? And then what can you, you were talking earlier about kind of, how you might get it into the body.
Charlotte: Well, I think that the, two things out of this: One is, you know, receive the feedback with generosity and gratitude, and then ask yourself, ‘What is it that I can do right now in my medium that makes me feel like I have my agency?’
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: ‘Cause I think sometimes when we get feedback, we feel like our agency in the creative process is taken away from us.
Melinda: Mmm Hmm.
Charlotte: So for me, I will write about the feedback that I've just been given.
Melinda: How, like how you feel about the feedback.
Charlotte: Absolutely. Yeah.
Melinda: Uh huh.
Charlotte: “Oh, I feel like I'm really grateful, this,” “I feel like they didn't get,” “Oh, this one part, I knew I was fudging and they caught me on it. I hate that, they caught me.”
Melinda: Uh huh.
Charlotte: You know, those things.
Melinda: Yeah, yeah.
Charlotte: Or if you're a dancer, dance. If you're a painter, paint. And go, return yourself to the to the medium so that your relationship with that is strong.
Melinda: Yeah.
Charlotte: And then, I would, like, two weeks later, or that's the number that works for me. I would come back and reread the feedback or reconsider the feedback. And how does it compare to when I first received it? And how does it compare now?
And I'm, almost always, I have found that I'm in a more empowered place after I've given it some time.
Melinda: Yes.
Charlotte: And after I've also returned to the medium itself, so I'm in relationship with that again.
Melinda: Yeah, yeah. So there's this kind of dance between the immediate processing of the feedback, and then kind of putting it away for a little bit, letting it, you know, process, and then coming back. Taking some time and then coming back.
Charlotte: And not being, “Oh my God, they saw that my, my slip was showing. And I have to fix it right away!”
Melinda: [Laughter] Right. Right. No self-judgment
Charlotte: Yeah.
Melinda. If we can help it. Okay, great.
Charlotte: Find and connect with us on YouTube and social media under Syncreate, and we're now on Patreon as well. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and leave us a review.
Melinda: And we're recording today at Record ATX Studios in Austin, Texas, with Charlotte joining us from the Hudson Valley. And the podcast is produced in collaboration with Mike Osborne at 14th Street Studios. Thanks so much for being with us. And see you next time.
